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Author: Subject: Cold War Reboot

Extreme Fanatic





Posts: 893
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 21/5/2003 at 06:45 AM
http://story.news.yahoo.com/fc?cid=34&tmpl=fc&in=World&cat= Nuclear_Weapons

Rumsfeld and Bush want to restart US nuclear research into 'mini-nukes'. I seriously don't know how that man got elected... I mean, restart nuclear research? At a time like this? When we say North Korea can't do it, but we do it because we're the big guys? When we go into other countries to look for weapons of mass destruction and we're making them here in the good ol' USA?

Either way, I don't see why we need mini-nukes anyway. We have good old fashioned normal bombs. They can do just as much damage (if you pack enough in) and don't screw up the nearby environment for the next two million years.

I think this is just going to spark an arms race... With who, I'm not sure. Probably the 'axis of evil' would do that, but they're not really ones for telling everyone what they're doing. Oui...

So what do you all think?

See http://www.fas.org/faspir/2001/v54n1/weapons.htm for some science on mini-nukes...

 

____________________
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Fanatic




Posts: 344
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 21/5/2003 at 12:06 PM
Egads, this is what happens when people elect leaders with no mind of their own.

 

____________________
co-worker: "Your gay!?"
myself: "Didn't you see my rainbow pin?"
co-worker: "I just thought you liked skettles."
-(yes, it actually happened to me)

 

Fanatic




Posts: 248
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 21/5/2003 at 12:06 PM
i don't see why either! You would think that we'd be smarter than that....we had a ban for a reason. During the cold war we could have ended the world! I know that I was too young to remember the end of the cold war but muh mama said the day that those Soviet ships were on their way to cuba (b/c of the cuban missile crisis) She said that the world stood still that day....everyone held their breathe...It's really pointless though, extrememly pointless.....You would think that you would learn a little from the past and yet we don't...we let history repeat its self.....Just like you would think we would have learned from Napolean...if there was no Napolean there would probably be no Hitler.....Hiroshima is still devestated about the effects of the a-bomb we dropped in WW2 so i mean wtf I know other countries have just as much technology as we do and the minute we start dropping someone is gonna drop one on us

 

____________________
My Life is like a porno-Without the sex-Just the weird music

 

Member




Posts: 74
Registered: 17/3/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 21/5/2003 at 01:08 PM
Bush wasn't elected... Al Gore one by about a thousand votes (which isn't much mind you). They proved it in the book "Stupid White Men". Unfortunately Gore stepped down because the recount made him look stupid, and did so before the final results were found. Bush also had deceased people voting for him... as in fake ballots

 

____________________
"Be neither a master nor a slave to pudding, for there is a time to gather, and a time to cast pudding away"

 

Fanatic




Posts: 344
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 21/5/2003 at 05:19 PM
I was perfectly happy with the some odd 2,000 nukes we have all ready. As for Bush I don't trust him, never did. My family mocked me when I told them I was voting for Nadar, that was untill the bitch fight in Florida. Now I get the solom look :you were right: when the subject is broght up.

 

____________________
co-worker: "Your gay!?"

myself: "Didn't you see my rainbow pin?"

co-worker: "I just thought you liked skettles."

-(yes, it actually happened to me)

 

Member




Posts: 62
Registered: 5/10/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 21/5/2003 at 05:24 PM
Due to my shocking lack of knowledge on political and global subjects, I think it is wise to stay out of any debates on this forum. Therefore my A-B-C conclusion is:
This is a bad idea.

 

____________________
Let viagra bring the magic back.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 893
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 21/5/2003 at 08:40 PM
Yeah, I know abou it, Dead-cell... Damn this catch 22 we're in. Vote for Nader, you took votes away from Gore. Vote for Gore, you erased any chance of the green party becoming strong. Vote for Bush, well... Bush wins anyway.

What if... what if... Nader had run under the democratic ticket? He has the support of the democratic constituents AND the green party dudes. Then do a switch back to Green once your in office. Don't think it'd be possible, though. I'm sure there's some animosity between the two parties for their vote-splitting history.

I don't know what I should do this next election. Should I vote for the dems, and give my strongest shot against Bush? Or should I vote green, which is the party I most like and is the most truthful?

Augh... damn system! I can see the founding fathers laughing at me!

 

____________________
Piggy's got the Conch!

 

Fanatic




Posts: 463
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 22/5/2003 at 06:13 PM
Ummm...

Nicholas, the only thing Moore has ever proven is that if you trick lot of people into believing your bullshit, they'll make you rich.

 

____________________
Sometimes I dream about dinosaurs shopping for cargo shorts at the Gap. Does that make me a bad person?

 

Fanatic




Posts: 344
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 26/5/2003 at 07:22 AM
I think what meant was the fact that Gore won the Popular votes, but Bush won the electoral votes. There is also another book titled Every Thing You Know Is A Lie, and it stated some of the same things as Moore's book. Your right Ironboots this is a paradox. I wish I knew the solution to it, so it would not happen again.

 

____________________
co-worker: "Your gay!?"


myself: "Didn't you see my rainbow pin?"


co-worker: "I just thought you liked skettles."


-(yes, it actually happened to me)

 

Fanatic




Posts: 580
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 26/5/2003 at 07:38 PM
Boots & Cell: My input in these discussions never seems to be very welcome, but I'll throw it in anyway. I understand the problems you are wrestling with here. Unfortunately, Cell, that as long as the issues of district gerrymandering, questionable financing, campaigning irregularities and voting procedural accountability are not addressed, there will not be a solution to the populus vs. electorate problem. With the advent of "electronic" voting, there is an even greater potential for abuses... whose word are you taking for what the popular vote actually is, anyway...? Even if the antiquated and elitist institution of the electoral college were done away with, it is easier now to hijack an election than it has ever been before.

On that depressing note my next observation is going to sound counterintuitive. The "solution" (and it is a long-term solution rather than a "quick fix") is to exercise your voice in an election. The idea that voting for any candidate not affiliated with one of the two major parties is tantamount to "throwing your vote away" is a self-fulfilling prophecy that only serves the interest of the firmly entrenched Democrats and Republicans (which is why they repeat it as often as they do). The fact is that if a significant number of voters (the percentage required for formal recognition varies on a state-by-state basis, but it is in no case unreasonably high) did not internalise that it is futile to vote Green, Libertarian, Reform, Freedom or any of the many other legitimate political parties in the USA, we might very well not find ourselves in the position of being forced to oust a single corrupt individual or individuals from office. There is a reason that elected officials are slaves to polls and surveys, and that reason is that your voice is louder than you might believe... if a large enough percentage demanded integrity, you would not see nearly the number of abuses that you do now. Legitimate competition amongst honourable candidates instead of partisan affiliations and backroom wheeling and dealing might actually cause the cream to rise to the top.

Vote with your conscience and have faith, but do not let despair with the system cripple you from acting at all ("Why bother voting? It's all rigged anyway." Fatalism is for losers). Boots, do not try to worry so much over voting blocks and byzantine policy issues that are out of the hands of the common person. Vote for the individual and party that you most believe in and have faith that a majority will do the same. I am, as always

your faithful servant,

~M.


 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 656
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 26/5/2003 at 09:30 PM
I'm a bit skeptical on who runs for Presidency and stuff like that either way...not saying that politicians are bad or anything (Hell, I can give a -little- credit to Bush...even though his actions kind of seem oppressive), just seen a lot of crap spring from it...then again, I guess that's life and one of my shadow traits is losing faith from time to time. *frowns and walks off*

I see a lot of past parallels to the present, though. This "war on Terror" is roughly reminding me of McCarthyism...or better yet, another witch hunt. *rolls eyes*

One sarcastic and cynical individual at the moment,
Anya

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 893
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 27/5/2003 at 06:05 AM
Mono: 'Your faithful servant'? Thanks, but a simple 'friend' would have sufficed...

Anyway, thanks. That little pep talk made me decide to do it. I'm going to vote for whoever I damn well want rather than paying attention to the negativities of voting that way.
*gives the finger to the two major parties*

 

____________________
Piggy's got the Conch!

 

Fanatic




Posts: 463
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 28/5/2003 at 08:05 AM
Even if the antiquated and elitist institution of the electoral college were done away with,

Ummm...

Mono, the Electoral College is there for a good reason. We are not a straight democracy, which is a very good thing. If only the popular vote were used, then only California and New York would elect the president. Nobody would care about Rhode Island or Idaho. The electoral college was set up so that ALL the states would have a say in the election of the president.

 

____________________
Sometimes I dream about dinosaurs shopping for cargo shorts at the Gap.
Does that make me a bad person?

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 893
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 28/5/2003 at 12:49 PM
I disagree Xaoswolf... Its not just the popular vote; the electoral college itself is still size-biased. Alaska gets three measly votes while California gets 50-something. And New York and California would -not- determine the winner. Really... The votes are all in one big hat, there's no state/district lines.

There'd be no strategy of winning this state over here, then this state, ignore that state, then this one, because you'd try and get any votes you could. It wouldn't matter what state or election district it was in.

 

____________________
Piggy's got the Conch!

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 856
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 29/5/2003 at 12:23 AM
Yeesh...

I've always viewed bombs as an all-together cowardly way of waging war ultimately. But enough is never enough, always more...bigger, better, stronger and faster. This is the way of the world, and it's a bad way altogether I figure.

 

____________________
In the valley of the Goats, the Goat Fucker is King

 

Fanatic




Posts: 580
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 4/6/2003 at 01:14 AM
Xaos: I'm not trying to be contentious, but I have heard that argument before and my take on it is that it is a bit contradictory. The idea that New York State, California, or any centre of population concentration has a greater voice than less densely populated areas is based upon the mistaken precept that everyone in a given area vote unanimously... unfortunately, that is precisely how things DO end up working out when X number of people equal such and such many electorate votes. A more straightforward democratic process would minimise this problem of these strategic blocks as Boots very astutely pointed out. Additionally, the electoral college is under no obligation to vote in accordance with the majority (and there has not been an election yet in this country in which every electorate voted in accordance with the majority), so in practice you have X number of people's voices not necessarily being represented at all. This being the case, I've often wondered why candidates for office don't simply discover who the individuals are that comprise the electorate body and campaign directly to those people... at the end of the day, those are the only ones whose preferences actually matter. That is in accordance with the designs of those wealthy landowners that were our founding fathers, anyway.

It is my opinion that no representative democracy can remain genuinely altruistic for long. When people count upon another party to represent their interests, they no longer (by and large) pay as close attention to the specifics of those interests. That is to say, it is no coincidence that huge amounts of legislation are ratified before any member of the public ever hears anything about it or that the modal citizen in the USA is apathetic about voting. Then again, I am the sort who would never use a broker or blindly take a mechanic's word for things, so maybe that is just me.

Dolo: Couldn't be more cowardly, actually, but that's the way things are. We seem to be rebooting more than just the Cold War proper these days... there are advisors to the Pentagon (why did they ever stop calling it the War Department anyway?) who are actually advocating the idea of "winnable nuclear war" (I guess the next step here is to start re-running those quaint "Duck and Cover" psa's again and imagining that a backyard bomb shelter would do something besides slow roast its occupants), but I have actually read editorials recently IN PRAISE OF Senator Joe McCarthy (you read that correctly), and the initiative to give Guantanomo its own execution chambers so that detainees can be captured, "tried" (san legal representation) and disposed of without any pesky prying eyes to disrupt things... sounds suspiciously mid-twentieth century to me.
Check it out for yourself:
http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/052703B.shtml

Even the type of language being used recently has had a peculiar (and nauseating) retro twist to it.
Check it out for yourself:
http://www.buzzflash.com/farrell/03/05/27.html

To call it a repeat of the Cold War is to put too fine a point on things. What we are seeing is a reboot of the most despicable attitudes and agendae of the second milennium. I am, as always,

your faithful servant,

~M.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 856
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 5/6/2003 at 02:11 AM
Man, is it just me or do things just get stupid, then flip around and repeat aforementioned stupid actions on a larger scale...actually I know it's not just me, I just couldn't think of a better way to say it. Argh.
Maybe I should go for president, dude...Mono, would you jump on board as an advisor if I did? I could use the help...specially since all I'm really good for is destroying shit and laughing.

 

____________________
In the valley of the Goats, the Goat Fucker is King

 

Fanatic




Posts: 580
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 6/6/2003 at 01:56 AM
Interesting proposal, Dolo, and I would consider it. Since my career as a grave robber is not really going anywhere and I don't have a drakkar with which to pillage the coastlines, I was beginning to suspect that the keynote of my life's work would be perishing with my disciples while we defended our compound from the ATF. I'll throw your proposal on my list of options.

As for your "Is it just me...?" observation, it has long been a truism that experience for most people is merely the repetition of a mistake. I guess that what they "learn" from their mistakes is how to make them on grander scales. I am

sleepy.

~M.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 856
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 6/6/2003 at 05:44 AM
What a delightful spin on the "You always learn from your mistakes" story...I certainly hope my children, if I ever manage to accidentally have one that knows where I live, don't figure out how to turn that one on me...in any case, I'd prolly just plop them in front of the tv.

 

____________________
In the valley of the Goats, the Goat Fucker is King

 

Fanatic




Posts: 522
Registered: 6/7/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 6/6/2003 at 09:52 AM
There are alot of fubar things going on.

Here's something to spend alittle freetime with.
http://www.thememoryhole.org/index.htm

 

____________________
but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living
 
 


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