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Author: Subject: WTF is gothic?

Occasional Poster





Posts: 34
Registered: 29/4/2003
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  posted on 14/5/2003 at 11:15 AM
The gothic scene has reached an almost unbelievable diversity these days. The music ranges from minimalistic to complex styles, employing probably every instrument ever invented. You can find calm piano compositions as well as orchestral arrangements, thunderstorms of guitars and drums or experimental electronic music... and some of that stuff doesn't sound that different from the tunes played on MTV.

You can find followers of practically every belief; the established religions as well as Wiccans, Pagans or misanthropic Satanists. There are people in this scene that despise you because you just happen to like NIN or Manson or don't exclusively listen to bands that are considered "goth". Guys with pompous clothing snarl at guys wearing plain black and vice versa. Hell, some of them have even a problem with people wearing shirts of their favorite bands.

There are assholes in every cultural movement and I don't think they're the majority, but that's not the point here. The point is: What is "gothic"? And what is not? I don't want any quotations from web sites, books or other media - I'm only interested in your personal opinion. What is it that you have in common with the other users of this website? What do you have in common with all those other people in the scene? Would you call yourself a goth? Why? Why not?

All those questions may be absolutely pointless and leading nowhere, but they just came to me while surfing the web a bit and visiting some of its darker sites.

 

____________________
"A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing." - Oscar Wilde

 

Administrator




Posts: 317
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Online

  posted on 14/5/2003 at 11:21 AM
http://www.shmeng.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=a rticle&sid=366

 

____________________
So Sayeth Me

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1570
Registered: 31/12/1969
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  posted on 14/5/2003 at 11:18 PM
Eh, you have to admit Devin, there hasn't been another WIG thread in AGES.

 

____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.

 

Occasional Poster




Posts: 28
Registered: 16/1/2003
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  posted on 15/5/2003 at 04:28 AM
she has a point

 

____________________
move along people..no funny message here.

 

Fanatic




Posts: 376
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 15/5/2003 at 05:23 AM
Everyone gets cranky over WIG threads, all that happens is people say "I think this..." and then others correct them. *frowns* Anyhow, Remy was after personal opinions which can be read in many, many other places.

 

____________________
Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 856
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 15/5/2003 at 07:15 AM
Goths are freaking awesome...they wear bad-ass threads, make-up...and then charge into the ring and go head to head with actual Bulls!! It's amazing...sometimes all they have as protection are those crazy barrels, and man do they get knocked around like crazy...Goths are the most hard-headed bad-asses of them all. And they do it all so cowboys can go home and see their mama's...

 

____________________
In the valley of the Goats, the Goat Fucker is King

 

Occasional Poster




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Registered: 29/4/2003
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  posted on 15/5/2003 at 08:13 AM
What you say is right, Pixi, and I experienced that in a few other boards on the web where I didn't even participate in threads like this one. But since I got the impression that most people here are capable of normal discussions I thought it would be worth a try to collect all the various opinions in one place. That's why I specificially asked for personal points of view on this issue.

 

____________________
"A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything and the value of
nothing." - Oscar Wilde

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 658
Registered: 27/5/2002
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  posted on 15/5/2003 at 02:32 PM
Goths suck!

I have instructed everyone I know that if the words "Life is a cruel joke played upon the living with no hope of a punchline" EVER slip out of my mouth that they must immediatly eviscerate mee and force mee to eat my own entrails until I choke on them (or until I get brain damage from not chewing properly, either way...)

 

____________________

i wanted to die, and then it progressed into wanting everyone else to die so i could watch, and then me die.

-ickgirl

 

Extreme Fanatic




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Registered: 31/12/1969
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  posted on 15/5/2003 at 06:54 PM
That is an excellent plan of action.
I'm going to have to second that vote.

And I know that all is meant well and in good fun Remy, but goddamn.....WIG is the fucking bane of my existence. You'll get a different answer from every single fucking person and then at some point someone will be like "WELL *huff* GUESS I"M NOT GOTH ENOUGH FOR YOU THEN FUCK YOU I"M TELLING MY MOM" and then most people will laugh at them or call them names, some will try to stick up for them, and someone, somewhere, at that given moment will give up, walk into their backyard and put a bullet in their head to stop the chants of "WIG?! WIG?!"

THere is no being "specific" I'm afraid, because specificism has a tendency to exclude people or aspects of people and that makes their little hearts bleed and their tempers flair because even tho they deny it adamantly they WANNA FIT SO FUCKING BAD. it's the equivalent of telling a cheerleader she's fat, in other words. Seems helpful at first, maybe even fun, but when the mascara runs and those fake nails come at your eyes you start to think twice about it being a good idea afterall...

 

____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.

 

Extreme Fanatic




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  posted on 15/5/2003 at 10:26 PM
My bust, I was recently corrected...apparently I was misinformed, Rodeo-clowns are bad-ass...Goths...well...fuck...if they're not rodeo clowns than I don't know much about 'em really.

 

____________________
In the valley of the Goats, the Goat Fucker is King

 

Occasional Poster




Posts: 34
Registered: 29/4/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 16/5/2003 at 03:50 AM
Okay ladies and gentlemen, you convinced me that there are questions that should never be brought up, no matter where, when or with what intention.

 

____________________
"A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything and the value of

nothing." - Oscar Wilde

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 759
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 16/5/2003 at 05:39 AM
yah this isnt the best site for a WIG thread since this is not a goth site. We go months without "goth stuff" being posted here. I did restrain the desperate urge to talk about architecture and illuminated texted, revivalist styles in America during the Industrial Revolution, and PG Wodehouse (dont ask).
If you go back thru the older articles and threads you will find lots of interesting opinions and some well written stuff.
here are some you might want to read

 

____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires away.

 

Fanatic




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Registered: 16/7/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 16/5/2003 at 03:43 PM
Here are some good links, too: http://home.no.net/damber/gothic/

 

____________________
All stressed out and no one to choke...



 

Occasional Poster




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Registered: 29/4/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 17/5/2003 at 03:30 AM
Thanks everybody, but pages and articles like these were the reason I had the idea to collect all those various opinions in one place. It wasn't because I wanted to inform myself. But the arguments Pixi and Bettie provided are right, so I officially consider this whole thing a bad idea by now.

 

____________________
"A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything and the value of />

nothing." - Oscar Wilde

 

Fanatic




Posts: 376
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 17/5/2003 at 04:01 AM
No bubble bursting intended. *apologetic face*

 

____________________
Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life.

 

Occasional Poster




Posts: 34
Registered: 29/4/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 17/5/2003 at 05:34 AM
No offense of any kind taken

 

____________________
"A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything and the value of />
/>


nothing." - Oscar Wilde

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1570
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 17/5/2003 at 11:46 PM
Well I'm certainly glad no offence was taken, but from reading all those articles you can see how very very easily something harmless can go haywire *lol*

What is goth? The ever pressing question? Lemme help with a general synapsis of the answer in my own words:

I dunno.

 

____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.

 

Fanatic




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Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 18/5/2003 at 04:44 AM
Gothic is so far derived from its original meaning there is no point debating its boundaries.

 

____________________
Light is changing to shadow, and casting a shroud over all we have known.

 

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Registered: 6/7/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 18/5/2003 at 01:29 PM
http://www.scathe.demon.co.uk/histgoth.htm

Same stuff, but put differently.

 

____________________
but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living
 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 759
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 12/6/2003 at 05:47 AM
As far as I know, (and personal experience goes back to the early 80's here) goth has always been this diverse. When there were 50 people in the US that could be "labeled" as goth, all 50 were very different people that wore different things, listened to different bands, and so forth. so called approved goth music has always incorporated anything and everything from punk to world to classical. I personally have been to "goth" shows where a punk band opened and the club played classical when the bands were done. (it was and is a cool club)
While christian may be repressented in the goth subculture, it has never figured as the main religion to my knowledge, other than in the reuse of its icons as the fashion statements that they are. It was '86 before i met a christian goth.
*insert scholarly notes here*
the most prevelent theories about this sub/counterculture are based on Jungian achetypes and a socail need for scapegoating. That said, this sub/counterculture has "survived" longer than most of its american predicesors having successful maintained some continuity for over 25 years with no large gaps of new blood.
It is also generally accepted that there are 3 seperate "generations" of the subculture that hold different concepts to be more important that the other generations. The first two generations were defined by media and themselves and so is the third generation, meaning that the people that can loosely be grouped into a generation self define based on thier peers and the actions of the host culture (mainstream america here). as the people and the host culture change, the self definition will inevitably change too.
*end scholar stuff here*
so when you, as a third generation, ask some 30 year old (first or second generation) "what is gothic?" they arent going to help, not because they are mean or hate you or think you are just some stoopid kid, but rather because you MUST define yourself and no one will do it for you.
So what is gothic? I couldnt say, im not gothic. It wasnt called gothic in my days of self definition. It was called goth. Can i help you define what it means to you? not really, i can only tell you what it was like for me, if i feel like boring you to death since my experiences are so far removed from your own, my peers are different than yours, and I am, as anyone will tell you, pedantic to an extreme.
I would of course suggest that you continue to try to figure out who you are and what you mean to yourself and those around you, but, really, its your problem and need, not mine.
giggle.. so what is goth? a group of people with enough self worth and self awareness to refuse to accept outside identification that try new things, read new books, and try to learn new things. They reject anything handed to them on a silver platter (except good sex or food) and refuse to accept change without thought. How they dress is a reflection of that. what music they listen to reflects what they are going thru in thier lives and thier personal needs (commuting, sex, dinner party, clubbing) at the moment. Which, if any, religion they follow is a product of thier upbringing and personal spiritualism. all those things are symtoms of thier goth(ic/k)-ness, not the disease itself.

so there... a nice bit of WIG ya think?

 

____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.

 
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