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Remy
Occasional Poster   Posts: 34 Registered: 29/4/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 14/5/2003 at 11:15 AM |
The gothic scene has reached an almost unbelievable diversity these days.
The music ranges from minimalistic to complex styles, employing probably
every instrument ever invented. You can find calm piano compositions as
well as orchestral arrangements, thunderstorms of guitars and drums or
experimental electronic music... and some of that stuff doesn't sound that
different from the tunes played on MTV.
You can find followers of practically every belief; the established
religions as well as Wiccans, Pagans or misanthropic Satanists. There are
people in this scene that despise you because you just happen to like NIN
or Manson or don't exclusively listen to bands that are considered "goth".
Guys with pompous clothing snarl at guys wearing plain black and vice
versa. Hell, some of them have even a problem with people wearing shirts of
their favorite bands.
There are assholes in every cultural movement and I don't think they're the
majority, but that's not the point here. The point is: What is "gothic"?
And what is not? I don't want any quotations from web sites, books or other
media - I'm only interested in your personal opinion. What is it that you
have in common with the other users of this website? What do you have in
common with all those other people in the scene? Would you call yourself a
goth? Why? Why not?
All those questions may be absolutely pointless and leading nowhere, but
they just came to me while surfing the web a bit and visiting some of its
darker sites. ____________________
"A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything and the value of
nothing." - Oscar Wilde
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Devin
Administrator   Posts: 317 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Online
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posted on 14/5/2003 at 11:21 AM |
| http://www.shmeng.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=a
rticle&sid=366 ____________________
So Sayeth Me
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic   Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 14/5/2003 at 11:18 PM |
| Eh, you have to admit Devin, there hasn't been another WIG thread in AGES. ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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burn1311
Occasional Poster  Posts: 28 Registered: 16/1/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 15/5/2003 at 04:28 AM |
| she has a point ____________________
move along people..no funny message here.
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Psychopixi
Fanatic  Posts: 376 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 15/5/2003 at 05:23 AM |
| Everyone gets cranky over WIG threads, all that happens is people say "I
think this..." and then others correct them. *frowns* Anyhow, Remy was
after personal opinions which can be read in many, many other places. ____________________
Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life.
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Dolorosa
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 856 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 15/5/2003 at 07:15 AM |
| Goths are freaking awesome...they wear bad-ass threads, make-up...and then
charge into the ring and go head to head with actual Bulls!! It's
amazing...sometimes all they have as protection are those crazy barrels,
and man do they get knocked around like crazy...Goths are the most
hard-headed bad-asses of them all. And they do it all so cowboys can go
home and see their mama's... ____________________
In the valley of the Goats, the Goat Fucker is King
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Remy
Occasional Poster Posts: 34 Registered: 29/4/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 15/5/2003 at 08:13 AM |
| What you say is right, Pixi, and I experienced that in a few other boards
on the web where I didn't even participate in threads like this one. But
since I got the impression that most people here are capable of normal
discussions I thought it would be worth a try to collect all the various
opinions in one place. That's why I specificially asked for personal points
of view on this issue. ____________________
"A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything and the value of
nothing." - Oscar Wilde
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IamSquid
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 658 Registered: 27/5/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 15/5/2003 at 02:32 PM |
Goths suck!
I have instructed everyone I know that if the words "Life is a cruel joke
played upon the living with no hope of a punchline" EVER slip out of my
mouth that they must immediatly eviscerate mee and force mee to eat my own
entrails until I choke on them (or until I get brain damage from not
chewing properly, either way...) ____________________
i wanted to die, and then it progressed into wanting everyone else to
die so i could watch, and then me die.
-ickgirl
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 15/5/2003 at 06:54 PM |
That is an excellent plan of action.
I'm going to have to second that vote.
And I know that all is meant well and in good fun Remy, but goddamn.....WIG
is the fucking bane of my existence. You'll get a different answer from
every single fucking person and then at some point someone will be like
"WELL *huff* GUESS I"M NOT GOTH ENOUGH FOR YOU THEN FUCK YOU I"M TELLING MY
MOM" and then most people will laugh at them or call them names, some will
try to stick up for them, and someone, somewhere, at that given moment will
give up, walk into their backyard and put a bullet in their head to stop
the chants of "WIG?! WIG?!"
THere is no being "specific" I'm afraid, because specificism has a tendency
to exclude people or aspects of people and that makes their little hearts
bleed and their tempers flair because even tho they deny it adamantly they
WANNA FIT SO FUCKING BAD. it's the equivalent of telling a cheerleader
she's fat, in other words. Seems helpful at first, maybe even fun, but
when the mascara runs and those fake nails come at your eyes you start to
think twice about it being a good idea afterall... ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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Dolorosa
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 856 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 15/5/2003 at 10:26 PM |
| My bust, I was recently corrected...apparently I was misinformed,
Rodeo-clowns are bad-ass...Goths...well...fuck...if they're not rodeo
clowns than I don't know much about 'em really. ____________________
In the valley of the Goats, the Goat Fucker is King
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Remy
Occasional Poster Posts: 34 Registered: 29/4/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 16/5/2003 at 03:50 AM |
| Okay ladies and gentlemen, you convinced me that there are questions that
should never be brought up, no matter where, when or with what intention. ____________________
"A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything and the value of
nothing." - Oscar Wilde
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callei
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 16/5/2003 at 05:39 AM |
yah this isnt the best site for a WIG thread since this is not a goth site.
We go months without "goth stuff" being posted here. I did restrain the
desperate urge to talk about architecture and illuminated texted,
revivalist styles in America during the Industrial Revolution, and PG
Wodehouse (dont ask).
If you go back thru the older articles and threads you will find lots of
interesting opinions and some well written stuff.
here are
some you might want to read ____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.
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KatB
Fanatic  Posts: 241 Registered: 16/7/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 16/5/2003 at 03:43 PM |
| Here are some good links, too: http://home.no.net/damber/gothic/ ____________________
All stressed out and no one to choke...
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Remy
Occasional Poster Posts: 34 Registered: 29/4/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 17/5/2003 at 03:30 AM |
| Thanks everybody, but pages and articles like these were the reason I had
the idea to collect all those various opinions in one place. It wasn't
because I wanted to inform myself. But the arguments Pixi and Bettie
provided are right, so I officially consider this whole thing a bad idea by
now. ____________________
"A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything and the value of
/>
nothing." - Oscar Wilde
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Psychopixi
Fanatic Posts: 376 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 17/5/2003 at 04:01 AM |
| No bubble bursting intended. *apologetic face* ____________________
Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life.
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Remy
Occasional Poster Posts: 34 Registered: 29/4/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 17/5/2003 at 05:34 AM |
No offense of any kind taken  ____________________
"A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything and the value
of
/>
/>
nothing." - Oscar Wilde
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 17/5/2003 at 11:46 PM |
Well I'm certainly glad no offence was taken, but from reading all those
articles you can see how very very easily something harmless can go haywire
*lol*
What is goth? The ever pressing question? Lemme help with a general
synapsis of the answer in my own words:
I dunno. ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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Abbadon
Fanatic  Posts: 499 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 18/5/2003 at 04:44 AM |
| Gothic is so far derived from its original meaning there is no point
debating its boundaries. ____________________
Light is changing to shadow, and casting a shroud over all we have known.
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AloneSoul
Fanatic  Posts: 522 Registered: 6/7/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 18/5/2003 at 01:29 PM |
http://www.scathe.demon.co.uk/histgoth.htm
Same stuff, but put differently. ____________________
 but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living
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callei
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 12/6/2003 at 05:47 AM |
As far as I know, (and personal experience goes back to the early 80's
here) goth has always been this diverse. When there were 50 people in the
US that could be "labeled" as goth, all 50 were very different people that
wore different things, listened to different bands, and so forth. so called
approved goth music has always incorporated anything and everything from
punk to world to classical. I personally have been to "goth" shows where a
punk band opened and the club played classical when the bands were done.
(it was and is a cool club)
While christian may be repressented in the goth subculture, it has never
figured as the main religion to my knowledge, other than in the reuse of
its icons as the fashion statements that they are. It was '86 before i met
a christian goth.
*insert scholarly notes here*
the most prevelent theories about this sub/counterculture are based on
Jungian achetypes and a socail need for scapegoating. That said, this
sub/counterculture has "survived" longer than most of its american
predicesors having successful maintained some continuity for over 25 years
with no large gaps of new blood.
It is also generally accepted that there are 3 seperate "generations" of
the subculture that hold different concepts to be more important that the
other generations. The first two generations were defined by media and
themselves and so is the third generation, meaning that the people that can
loosely be grouped into a generation self define based on thier peers and
the actions of the host culture (mainstream america here). as the people
and the host culture change, the self definition will inevitably change
too.
*end scholar stuff here*
so when you, as a third generation, ask some 30 year old (first or second
generation) "what is gothic?" they arent going to help, not because they
are mean or hate you or think you are just some stoopid kid, but rather
because you MUST define yourself and no one will do it for you.
So what is gothic? I couldnt say, im not gothic. It wasnt called gothic in
my days of self definition. It was called goth. Can i help you define what
it means to you? not really, i can only tell you what it was like for me,
if i feel like boring you to death since my experiences are so far removed
from your own, my peers are different than yours, and I am, as anyone will
tell you, pedantic to an extreme.
I would of course suggest that you continue to try to figure out who you
are and what you mean to yourself and those around you, but, really, its
your problem and need, not mine.
giggle.. so what is goth? a group of people with enough self worth and self
awareness to refuse to accept outside identification that try new things,
read new books, and try to learn new things. They reject anything handed to
them on a silver platter (except good sex or food) and refuse to accept
change without thought. How they dress is a reflection of that. what music
they listen to reflects what they are going thru in thier lives and thier
personal needs (commuting, sex, dinner party, clubbing) at the moment.
Which, if any, religion they follow is a product of thier upbringing and
personal spiritualism. all those things are symtoms of thier
goth(ic/k)-ness, not the disease itself.
so there... a nice bit of WIG ya think? ____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.
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