Looking around where I live and where I go I see something that has me
pretty much confused and mildly dejected.
Since when was it fashionable to hate and speak out against America?
We're supposed to be the good guys...but it seems the popular kids have
said otherwise, and everyone's going along for the ride...it's like a weird
high school thing
These are Nations, not children...the history of the world is wrought in
the blood of nations, for good or ill. War happens...period, at least it's
happening for a somewhat decent reason...and funny, America has spearheaded
the modern aspect of war...you know, the one in which the juggernaut that
it could be is stifled, and the least amount of people killed, are.
I think it's interesting how wild and far-flung things can go...nothing
specific of course, but it all takes on a bilicial nastiness sooner or
later.
What the hell?
In any case, THIS forum is for about talking about the good things in
Americ, and the counterpoints of all th nastiness...despite our loyal
opposition to the war, there's still gotta' be something good about this
place right? I certainly hope so.
Personally, I like it when the world doesn't much like us...I never was
part of the incrowd.
I think a very damn good thing about America is, we haul of and feed so
many damned people, period...a lot of times for no benefit. Air dropped
MRE's for nations wihout food...hows that for fucking very nice of us.
Oh yeah, one last thing...no matter how much you hate, loathe or boo and
hiss against the war...don't ever sink so low that your start insulting the
soldiers, sailors and marines. They have zero say in where they go, or what
they do...if you hate the plan, still support the troops...I gaurantee you,
all they want to do is go the fuck home.
____________________ In the valley of the Goats, the Goat Fucker is King
Shade
Fanatic
Posts: 289 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 20/3/2003 at 04:01 PM
I'm sorry to say I will not be able to participate in this forum.
____________________ It is only through the lack of sex that humanity derives the need for an
all encompassing blind love. And in that moment of extreme horniness with
no relief in sight, in that moment can be found the birth of religion.
-Me
Dolorosa
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 856 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 20/3/2003 at 04:20 PM
The bleakness of this is disturbing to say the least...
Fuck it, I'm proud to be an American...even if no one is proud of America
anymore.
the best thing about her...is sure she has her problems...but we can
fucking fix those. Us, remember...We The People?
Actually can do shit...it just takes time and effort.
I expected at least a few people would remember the good things...I
sincerely hope I'm not wrong...
____________________ In the valley of the Goats, the Goat Fucker is King
Ironboots
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 893 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 20/3/2003 at 05:07 PM
You go, Dolo! Like the bumper sticker said... 'I LOVE my country... Its the
GOVERNMENT I'm afraid of...'
America rocks... Where else can you get such a mix of kickass? The
nostalgia, the romance, the adventure, the inventiveness...
Where else can you get cowboys? (Okay, fine... I'll allow vaqueros, but the
idealized cowboy is USA-born)
Where else can you go to the highest place in North America?
Where else can you go to the lowest place in the western hemisphere?
Where else can you find mountains, deserts, beaches, swamps, plains,
jungle, and tundra in one country?
America ROCKS!
America has asians, europeans, and africans in its collective blood. Where
else can you find so much diversity except the UN building (which just so
happens to be on you-know-what soil)?
America has won 8 out of 9 wars in its 200+ year history. THAT is American
might, right there! Even when we were a group of measly 13 half-arse
colonies, we were strong enough to tell the british off. TWICE!
Who picked Europe out of its own mess during a Word War? TWICE?
Who fought a long and bloody civil war and came out stronger than ever
before?
Who achieved the grand feat, nay, engineering MIRACLE, of sending 3 men to
the moon, landing, and safely bringing them back again?
Who has grand areas of wonderful wild lands, and pledges to keep them free
from man's manipulating hand, simply for the sake of nature's own? (I know,
other countries do, particularly Russia, but we're working on it. I
hope.)
Who has a long history of the little guy standing up against the Man and
winning?
Who puts such great stress on personal freedoms and choice?
Who helps the little guy by putting a cap on Monopolies?
Who had a leader as likeable as Teddy Roosevelt? As enduring as FDR? As
friendly as Jimmy Carter?
Who takes care to patrol the international waters (figuratively) and use
its sole supremacy for the good of the world? (or at least, tries to)
America has freedom.
America has opportunity.
America has Aerosmith, America (who has a freakin' band named after them?),
the Eagles, Jimi Hendrix, Boston, Janis Joplin, Lynyrd Skynyrd, the Doors,
Carlos Santana, Styx, Van Halen, and ZZ Top. And I'm just reading from the
list of bands at the classic rock station's website... You're in for a load
of trouble if I go to the modern rock station as well, or backwards to the
60s...
And as we all know... after everything's said and done, its really just a
beer and a song that gets us to the next day...
____________________ Piggy's got the Conch!
Merry_Widow
Fanatic
Posts: 598 Registered: 24/8/2002 Status: Offline
posted on 20/3/2003 at 06:26 PM
Wow, I was going to come on and say some stuff, but you just said it all,
Bootsie!
____________________ Okay, dazzle me.
callei
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 20/3/2003 at 07:01 PM
Where else can you get cowboys? (Okay, fine... I'll allow vaqueros, but the
idealized cowboy is USA-born)
Where else can you go to the highest place in North America? Something we recently bought and are still trying to sort out the
natives…
Where else can you go to the lowest place in the western hemisphere? Great so we are the manic then too! (I had to say it. C'mon you knew I
was gonna make some lame joke here)
Where else can you find mountains, deserts, beaches, swamps, plains,
jungle, and tundra in one country? Russia for one. Then maybe China too. Well gee all the countries that
cover VAST amounts of land. And then of course there is Hawaii that has it
all and is merely a country that we occupy.
America ROCKS!
America has asians, europeans, and africans in its collective blood. Where
else can you find so much diversity except the UN building (which just so
happens to be on you-know-what soil)? 2 points here:
1) Every other "first" or "second" world country. And all the rest since
care workers and journalists come in all shapes and sizes.
2)The United Nations has six main organs. Five of them — the General
Assembly, the Security Council, the Economic and Social Council, the
Trusteeship Council and the Secretariat — are based at UN Headquarters in
New York. The sixth, the International Court of Justice, is located at The
Hague in the Netherlands.
America has won 8 out of 9 wars in its 200+ year history. THAT is American
might, right there! Even when we were a group of measly 13 half-arse
colonies, we were strong enough to tell the british off. TWICE! keep in mind all the "attacks". "Police actions" and "lending our
strengths" that we have done, and what we as a nation paid for them. And
most wars have ended in treaties, not victories. And we don’t talk about
the ones that we lost, we don’t even call them wars.
Who picked Europe out of its own mess during a Word War? TWICE? And how long did it take for us to do so? And what did we do to our own
citizens while "we the people" pressured our leaders to let us go to war?
Oh and how much money did we owe them before the first one?
Who fought a long and bloody civil war and came out stronger than ever
before? Most historians don’t see it that way. They see instead the lost of
states right's, certain other human rights (since slavery was not really
the core issues any more than Saddam is the core reason for this new
action), and the beginning of the new oligarchy that rules us now.
Who achieved the grand feat, nay, engineering MIRACLE, of sending 3 men to
the moon, landing, and safely bringing them back again? I think you
mean who did it first here right? Not who all has done it since that would
be a rather long list at this point in history
Who has grand areas of wonderful wild lands, and pledges to keep them free
from man's manipulating hand, simply for the sake of nature's own? (I know,
other countries do, particularly Russia, but we're working on it. I hope.)
I glad you added a little balance to this one
Who has a long history of the little guy standing up against the Man and
winning? France? Germany? Russian? Ireland? China? Vietnam? India? Every other
mother loving country in the world?
Who puts such great stress on personal freedoms and choice? considering how long it took for us to "let" women vote, allow the
abortions that were all ready going on, let the Indians off the
Reservations, and slow the burning of books, I really think this one is
obvious.
Who helps the little guy by putting a cap on Monopolies? And where did
we learn it from you might ask? Who taught us about things like unions, and
minimum wages and vaction time? Go on ask me.
Who had a leader as likeable as Teddy Roosevelt? As enduring as FDR? As
friendly as Jimmy Carter? History has been full of leaders. Do you REALLY need me to answer this
one for you?
Who takes care to patrol the international waters (figuratively) and use
its sole supremacy for the good of the world? (or at least, tries to)
or at least trys to get the propagandists to make it seem that way.
America has freedom. of a sort, but then so do most countries. Of a
sort.
America has opportunity. of a sort, but then again that is true all
over, depending on what kind of opportunity you are looking for.
America has Aerosmith, America (who has a freakin' band named after them?),
the Eagles, Jimi Hendrix, Boston, Janis Joplin, Lynyrd Skynyrd, the Doors,
Carlos Santana, Styx, Van Halen, and ZZ Top. And I'm just reading from the
list of bands at the classic rock station's website... You're in for a load
of trouble if I go to the modern rock station as well, or backwards to the
60s... yah sure but then there is the Stones, Beatles, "new wave", etc. and
really you could have mentioned Louis Armstrong in there too…
And as we all know... after everything's said and done, its really just a
beer and a song that gets us to the next day... Like we learned from
Germany lo these many years ago
callei
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 20/3/2003 at 07:25 PM
ok that was pissy and mean. I appology.
But really when in your minds did "we the people" become seperate from "our
government"? Arent they supposed to be elected to enact what "we the
people" want?
When has this country ever held to free speach? Ok free speach that wasnt
Anglo Protestant based.
When has this country ever held to freedom of religion?
More interestingly how long ago was it that laws passed that allow and
demand the governemnt to subsidize Protestant Christian churchs, allow wire
taps on ANY individual that is a "threat", and criminalize the state of
poverty?
Come on people lets finish one "war" before we start. we are throwing wars
on drugs, crime, and now terrorism. that is alot to take on, even for the
most "powerful" (and now the most politically isolated) country.
We candebate specific points or we can debate far reaching policies. It
really doesnt matter. I know what i have seen, read, and lived. you (the
plural you here) know what you have seen, read and lived. My ecperiences
helped to shape my views. Yours (plural again) did the same for you (i hope
rather than you ignoring what you see and instead just "believing" what you
have been told).
If enough people from enough geographical and financial walks of life rise
up and fight back, we could change things. I spend 20 years fighting for
change, some at my parents side and the rest as an adult risking jail. I
saw things change. Now i am seeing them change back.
Sorry soory. let me just stop again. Again i apologize for cutting up on
your post Ironboots. that was lame a wrong of me. Sorry everyone else that
read thru it and this one.
Ironboots
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 893 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 20/3/2003 at 08:32 PM
*shrugs* Its cool, Callei. Just goes to show there's two sides to
everything...
But I believe that Dolo formed this forum solely to talk about the good
things. We all know that America could be better, get its head out of its
ass, take a humbling or two, and just generally get along better, but we
just gotta wait for it...
Anytime you have a government, you have bureaucracy. And when you have
bureaucracy, then it takes a -very- long time to affect change civilly.
____________________ Piggy's got the Conch!
IamSquid
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 658 Registered: 27/5/2002 Status: Offline
posted on 20/3/2003 at 09:24 PM
I have alot of problems with the way this country is run but I still love
the country itself. Not that I'm a patriot at all but hell, I've been to a
few other countries and we have it made here!
The establishment is CROOKED! Yes! 100% This war is total BS!
On the other hand, I was just in a country where a comedian got into alot
of trouble for making a few jokes about the Prime Minister. Every, ten
seconds, some media outlet is making fun of whoever's in power no matter
who it is!
Sure America sucks, but I'd be lieing if I said there wasn't worse.
____________________
i wanted to die, and then it progressed into wanting everyone else to
die so i could watch, and then me die.
-ickgirl
Starlight
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 618 Registered: 27/9/2002 Status: Offline
posted on 20/3/2003 at 09:59 PM
Hey, I may speak my mind about things I don't like happening or the way
certain things are happening, but I always love my country...always.
I'm proud as hell to be an American...even if it's not fashionable or the
"in" thing to still love America. I've seen and heard so much at this point
in my life, that I am happy as hell to know that I can bitch about the way
things are being done and not get punished for talking about it. Sure there
are guidelines that you can't cross, but as long as those guidelines don't
get crossed (even though that's actually censorship, but at least it only
mild compared to most places), then you can say exactly how much you like
or don't like something. I mean the government won't go for anarchy, but
they will go for letting you express your being very displeased with
something or someone. When my dad didn't like a politician or a president
as much as the guy he'd voted for, then he'd say "Well I didn't vote for
him, but I support him, cuz like it or not...he is the leader and most
people wanted him there." So the way my dad thought, is pretty much the way
I've come to think myself. There are a lot of checks and balances, so that
overall we still usually end up having things pretty good for the most part
here. If nothing else, I'm glad I have bitching rights.
Okay, I've had a hard day today, not sure what did and didn't make sense. I
know where I was trying to go with this, but not sure it made any sense to
anyone but me.
____________________ "When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I've never
tried before." ~Mae West
Dolorosa
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 856 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 21/3/2003 at 01:02 PM
Hells yeah....
She may be sick, and possibly dying...but damn she's beautiful when she's
being good.
____________________ In the valley of the Goats, the Goat Fucker is King
Anemone
Occasional Poster
Posts: 12 Registered: 16/3/2003 Status: Offline
posted on 21/3/2003 at 03:06 PM
So as not to aggravate myself should this site decide to devour my post
once again, I will keep this short.
There is plenty about America to incite frustration. I'm frustrated with
my country all the time. But, regardless of the fact that I often disagree
with those currently running the government, that administrations are
sometimes corrupt, that my fellow countrymen often do things that embarass
me... I still love my country. And I love it enough that, if the need
arose, I would stand at the frontlines for it.
So why do I love my country so much? Freedom. The freedom to have a say
in political matters. The freedom to not care about political matters.
The freedom to call the leader of my country an idiot. The freedom to be a
complete and utter jerk off, even if no one else likes it. The freedom to
be a porn fiend. The freedom to post messages on a board that will be read
by hundreds, if not thousands of people across the world.
Sometimes we let all that freedom go to our heads and then we get greedy.
Why? Because we're spoiled. Yup. Americans are brats. We have so much
freedom that we start nitpicking. The truth is that, sure, we don't have
total and absolute freedom, but who would want that? That would just be
chaos. Besides, we already have more freedom than any other country out
there. I think that's enough for me.
Normally, I'm a bit more eloquent, but the system seems to hate my posts,
so this is third time I've had to write this sucker out. But, hopefully,
you get my drift.
Stars and Stripes.
____________________ I'm your best friend.
IamSquid
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 658 Registered: 27/5/2002 Status: Offline
posted on 21/3/2003 at 08:01 PM
Well the truth is we're not free at all in the eyes of the government. The
governement doesn't want us to know this of course, but freedom is
something that no governement (or lack thereof for that matter) can
provide. Freedom is something that is found within.
The government uses the word "freedom" to control us because the easiest
way to keep the masses from rising up against yoo is to keep them happy.
The truth however is that, in the US we have ALOT of conveience that we
should damn well be greatful for. The unfortunate thing is that a great
deal of this conveience is at the expense of the rest of the world.
But I have talked to many immigrants and people who have lived for many
years outside the country (for instance, my family) and many of them say
the sam thing, that America is the best country in the world. And when I
hear their stories I understand why.
I however, have had enough. I can't deal with this country anymore, not
for awhile anyway. I'm moving (I know this isn't the first time I've said
that) and I don't see myself coming back until things have cooled down.
____________________
i wanted to die, and then it progressed into wanting everyone else to
die so i could watch, and then me die.
-ickgirl
Closetgothbabe
Member
Posts: 189 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 24/3/2003 at 03:32 PM
Well I like living here, cant see myself living anywhere else really.
____________________ Guns are good, Guns are great...Kill the people that you hate!
KatB
Fanatic
Posts: 241 Registered: 16/7/2002 Status: Offline
posted on 25/3/2003 at 05:20 AM
Well, what I dislike the most is how such a big part of the rest of the
world - 'mine' included - seem to be in such a hurry to adopt into the
prototypical american traits. I AM sorry that a lot of non-americans seems
to jump blindfolded and with both hands tied into the deep end of that
pool.
I do however look immensly forward to see a few pieces of your US of A
first hand.
I know for a fact that there are a hell of a lot good people over there,
including many of those I don't agree that much with.
I also know that there are a lot of amazing stuff being done or made over
there that couldn't possibly take place anywhere else, because of or in
spite of all the things I find weird or scary.
Oh, and I was going to say some incredibly nice stuff now, but somebody
mentioned Carlos Santana, so I won't
____________________ All stressed out and no one to choke...
Anemone
Occasional Poster
Posts: 12 Registered: 16/3/2003 Status: Offline
posted on 25/3/2003 at 01:34 PM
I can understand much of the frustration that people have with our country.
I think that, especially in these recent events, our administration and
even our people have made some pretty whack decisions. Sometimes it's
downright embarassing to read the news.
But I still love this country. When you have so many people, you're bound
to have issues and conflict. I accept that.
I'm not too happy with the current heads of our country, however I trust
them not to run us into the ground. And, even then, we still have the
power to remove them.
We are cranky and untrusting people... yet we find a way to co-exist. Our
tremendous mixture of cultures, minds, tastes and ideas has made us the
most innovative, productive and wealthy country in the world. Given, yes,
that position is tenuous at best and requires a careful hand to maintain,
but I think that we can.
We have issues. Many of them. But I refuse to give up on my country.
____________________ I'm your best friend.
KatB
Fanatic
Posts: 241 Registered: 16/7/2002 Status: Offline
posted on 25/3/2003 at 06:56 PM
Again, this is only because of the Santana remark!
the most ... and wealthy country in the world.
The Outstanding Public Debt as of 26 Mar 2003 at 01:43:17 AM GMT is:
$ 6,466,739,564,901.15
The estimated population of the United States is 290,571,937
so each citizen's share of this debt is $22,255.21.
OK - back to the praising!
(Can't stop by this forum only to nag...)
OK, one thing I've noticed from reading posts by vegans and vegetarians,
you seem to have great options for those who chose to have alternative
diets.
____________________ All stressed out and no one to choke...
/>
Closetgothbabe
Member
Posts: 189 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 25/3/2003 at 07:00 PM
Cant wait till ya get here KatB, hope I get to see you on your visit. One
day I will have to come visit you and see for myself just how good those
apples are!! MMMMMM apples!
____________________ Guns are good, Guns are great...Kill the people that you hate!
Anemone
Occasional Poster
Posts: 12 Registered: 16/3/2003 Status: Offline
posted on 26/3/2003 at 03:00 AM
Whoop! Looks like I got burned!
Okay, ya got me there Kat. I really can't cover for the national debt.
I'll retract "wealthy," especially because it was the only word I could
think of at the moment. Oh, well!
____________________ I'm your best friend.
Xaoswolf
Fanatic
Posts: 463 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 26/3/2003 at 08:30 AM
I think that the debt as you put it isn't an accurate dipiction of wealth.
I have a student loan payment, and a car payment. This totals somewhere
around the amount you stated.
However, do to my current salary, I can makethe payments easily and have
money left over. Even Bill Gates probably has some kind of debt going
against him. Doesn't mean he isn't one wealthy bastard.
I'd say that debt only comes into the count when it is more than can be
handled. How many people in america are so deep in debt that they can't
swim?
____________________ Sometimes I dream about dinosaurs shopping for cargo shorts at the Gap.
Does that make me a bad person?