quote:Is it me, or did the
penis get off kind of easy?
First of all, I am so surprised no one jumped on that one....er...made a
joke about that.
As I see it (and I was not raised a Christian, so I may be wrong), the
angels were not originally nice and friendly cute wittle cuddly thigns, but
were to be feared - they carried the word of gods and were messengers (and
also pre-dated christianity by many years in other cultures). And Lucifer
("light bringer") is so much like Prometheus that I am surprised no one
ever discusses this - they both brought the power of the gods (in different
forms) to humanity, which essentially means to lift them up out of their
more animal state at the time, and were punished for it, cast down to be
tortured blah blah.
And I for one think that we as humans create our own heaven and hell. And
if I am wrong, then I don't mind going to hell, as I'd miss my friends
otherwise.....
Great topic though! In general I have friends of many vastly different
faiths who accept me and mine as I accept their belief systems. As an
outsider looking in, I guess I've always looked at it the way people look
at any other mythology - something to learn from perhaps.
Finally, for those who have been persecuted by people claiming the Bible
outlaws this and that, it also gives the big thumbs up to a lot of crazy
shit - I don't know verses or whatnot, but I am pretty sure that in the old
testament, sacrifice, multiple wives, murder and deceit are pretty commonly
accepted. So if some Christian gives you shit about being gay or whatever,
just ask them if it's okay to kill some oxen for the crops and marry a
whole boat-load of people, etc....
now, back to coveting my neighbor's ass....
Anya
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 25/5/2003 at 07:41 AM
It's a debatable topic. A lot of the stuff in the dogmas are based on
faith. Spirituality to me is merely believing there's something beyond the
sciences and evolution. And it is true that in the Old Testament, there
was a fair amount of sacrifices. It is said though that the New Testament
was to replace the old one and such.
I hear a lot about Heaven and Hell being the state of mind; it could be
possible in the sense that a lot of dogmas are fairly symbolical. I've got
no problem with people having different beliefs - as long as they're not
condemning mine or out to intentionally harm anyone; I've got Wiccan,
Atheist, Christian, Agnostic, Satanist (philosophy), Pagan, and other
associates and it's all fine with me.
Not sure if I mentioned this in the forums before, but I feel that those
who condemn others for not agreeing with their beliefs are either not
secure enough about their own, trying to feel special by being "different"
(wow, is that new), or whatnot...once more, maybe there's more behind it.
I'm just tired of hearing Bible thumpers acting "Holier Than Thou". But
I'm not perfect...sooo, hehe - maybe my beliefs are warped. *goes off and
drinks some tea*
____________________
sabator
Coward
Posts: 2 Registered: 29/5/2003 Status: Offline
posted on 1/6/2003 at 01:56 PM
Being that we really have no idea how anything works - you get to a small
enough scale and everythings confusing- it is foolish to beleive a really
old book knows any thing more than a group of old people.
I read a really great short horror story involving Jesus, about how it
REALLY was, and it was fantastic. The Bible has a lot of great stories (I
mean if you're into blood and guts, there is no gorier sweeping epic novel
in existence) and SOME pretty good advice, but then again the basics of
kindergarten (don't hit don't spit and share) will get you a LOT further in
life when you apply them to reality. Plus you have to understand that the
bible is in no way even CLOSE to the original texts, as it's been
translated to DEATH over and over and so many rulers have had it "changed"
to suit their needs, there's a monstrous gap in the life of jesus between
the age seven and thirty (so what happened inbetween?), the people in the
bible are always speaking FOR jesus, instead of him speaking for himself,
and half of the original text was burnt in the library in alexandria during
that big bad fire, so we don't even have the REAL bible, just the freehand
cliffnotes from about 1500 years ago. You can't totally discount it, as it
has some value as an accurate historical text, and has a few good tips on
being a decent human being, but all that crap about ME suffering for
SOMEONE ELSE'S FUCKUP (ie: the fall from "grace") can BLOW. Talk about
passing the goddamn buck, why don't you. Fuck that noise. That's why I'm
a satanist, not responsible for anyone but ME. If my ass is in a sling,
*I* put me there, not a fig leaf wearin twit running willly nilly eatin
shit he was told NOT to. Or you could turn that around and say that since
I was BORN into this miserable fallen condition, well, just run with it.
can't make it worse, can you?
____________________ Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
Psychopixi
Fanatic
Posts: 376 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 4/6/2003 at 10:54 AM
Ditto on the responsibility thing. I'll take the rap my own actions without
claiming "the devi made me do it" or "it's God's will". Even if the courts
suddenly decided to accept "the devil made me do it" as a valid excuse, I
think I'd still prefer to have the free will involved in taking
responsibilty for my actions. Does that make sense? I'd rather not blame it
on the devil because that would be like saying I didn't have any free will.
____________________ Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life.
callei
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 6/6/2003 at 06:19 AM
I get a kick out of the idea that so many people have to be told that they
ARE responsible for thier actions. Talk about disinfranchizing people,
taking away thier self knowledge that they are alive.
there is a neat book called "am i a hindu?". it gives a good sense of what
its like to see the world in a nonxian way (like most of the world) I
strongly reccomend it to anyone that wants to explore thier worldviews and
systems of knowing.
____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.
Anya
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 7/6/2003 at 12:57 AM
For the moment, I think I've shared enough of my spirituality (isn't based
on just one dogma, either) so I'll save the typing there.
Bettie: I agree for the most part on your thoughts on how the Bible is
likely inaccurate to a certain extent. When someone thinks I'm going to go
to Hell for my electic-ness or call my way the "wrong way", I just shrug
(use to get pissed off though, was my fire years)...nowdays, I am this
<> close to taking their book and either pulling out lines that'll
piss them off or shoving it up their ASS. I could go on and on about my
thoughts on Bible thumpers and the arguements they like to use to justify
them condemning me("You don't have to believe in Satan to worship him!",
"Bi-sexuality is a sin!", etc), but I don't want to get carpals by the end
of the year...and nowdays, I guess they're not that important enough to
share strong hate for.
In matter of fact, it's said that a fair amount of the Dead Sea Scrolls
were considered heresy by the Church so they were to be destroyed, but
there's a fair amount of it recovered thanks to archaeologists...hehe.
Then you get into the age where you have the Inquisition (also dubbed as
"The Burning Times") that convicted a lot of people of sleeping with the
Devil. Let me note that this went for "Witches" (women with strong
influence, people who used herbs to ail the ill, sociopaths, druids,
pagans, etc), Jews, AND heretical Christian branches; let's not forget that
A LOT of the accused were women and children as well *shudder*.
Callei: Yeah I think it's funny when little kids (or EVEN adults) blame
their actions on either "God's Will" or the Devil. To me it's them saying
that they cannot take responsibility for their actions. "Am I Hindu?"
sounds like an interesting book title. Who's the author? Know any places
on the web that'd sell it for a decent price (I am skeptical about
amazon.com now for I got ripped off on a decent translation book of the
Dead Sea Scrolls)? The town I live in has only so much information
concerning New Age/Occult/Religion/Spirituality stuff away from the typical
Christian stuff.