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Schizo
Extreme Fanatic   Posts: 897 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 26/12/2002 at 01:27 AM |
Since I'm kind of in the life-long process of creating my own bastard
religion, I'm kind of curious about what other people here think about
divinity, morality, and the origin of all things. (Those being what seem
to be the core issues of religion.) We've got some pretty original
thinkers here, so I think this could be interesting.
To start things off, here's what I think.
I think that Something out there started everything, but I don't care how.
I just know that such beauty didn't just happen. I think there was an
intelligence involved in the making of the universe. I think that
everything has a spirit (i.e. a conscious energy), even seemingly inanimate
objects. I think that we are intended to live in a way that honors the
spirits around us. Even when something must be destroyed, like a plant
that was uprooted to build a road, or to be eaten, it can be done in a way
that honors the spirit of that plant, and in that way the spirit lives on
in the thing that it was destroyed to create or sustain. I believe that
some spirits fail to honor the spirits they come in contact with, and from
this comes all the true sorrows and pains of the world. It is necessary at
times to protect ourselves and others from those that would damage our
spirits. Sometimes to the point of destroying the offending spirit, in
extreme cases. This, of course, must only be done with extreme caution and
humility, lest we should become like the thing we are trying to stop.
You know, I really haven't thought it through in quite these words before.
I'm trying to distill my views into the simplest form possible, and it has
just opened my mind to a new idea. Perhaps all spirits are part of a
larger spirit. The spirit of a stone may be a small part of the spirit of
the mountain it is imbedded in, which is in turn a part of the spirit of
the land the mountain rests in, which is a part of the planet that the land
is on. The planet is part of the spirit of the solar system, which is part
of the spirit of the galaxy, which is part of the spirit of the universe.
If this is true, then is there a separate Great Spirit that made the
universe, or is the Great Spirit actually the spirit of the universe
itself, the spirit of all things that are?
Unfortunately, people have become confused, and drawn distant from the
harmony of spirit that was intended. The rise of industry has put a
barrier between us and our natural sources of life. Modern law has
distorted the natural control of dishonoring spirits. Religion has warped
the consciousness of the ways of spirits, and driven many to deny the
existence of spirit entirely. What was once a true and steady rhythm is
now halting, faint, and broken. Many spirits are deeply withdrawn and
almost impossible to reach to honor properly. Most people must do great
dishonor to many spirits, and depend on the results of others dishonor,
just to survive.
I myself feel this crumbling rhythm, and it makes me deeply sorrowful. I
am constantly searching for ways to contact the spirits of those who
surround me, both human and otherwise, and honor them in the old way, but I
am distracted by the strength of the impersonal rhythm of modern life. I
long to get away from it all and live the way I was intended to, but I
can't, and even if I could get away, I don't know how to survive without
the conveniences that impersonality brings. The new rhythm is strong, and
it is not going away. I know I must live with it, and find a way to bring
the tatters of the old rhythm together in it, in a way that will ease the
discord.
Reading back over this, it all seems kind of mystic and earth-mother-ish.
I don't know, maybe I am really an earth-mother at heart, and have become
goth only because the world today really doesn't allow me to truly follow
my heart. I think that leaves me in a state of constant mourning. And
it's not that I think that modern technology is evil, just that the way it
is used is corrupt. It seems you can't do anything anymore without feeding
off of someone's cruelty or greed or dishonesty. The way I survive is to
numb myself to the ugliness of it all, and try my hardest to find things
that go back to the source, that haven't been filtered through the filthy
hands of businessmen and other cretins. Things like a candleflame, a cloud
over the moon, my baby's smile, the way my boyfriend takes care of me when
I'm sick.
It seems that, in humans, the spirit runs closer to the surface than in
most other things. It seems that everything else is to some extent at our
mercy. Sometimes I wonder what the world would be like without humans.
Perhaps it would be happier. But I also think it would be bored. I think
the world needs us, an essential part of the rhythm, and as long as there
is one person who still pays attention to that rhythm, that it is not all
in vain.
Well, that's my high-faluting theory! Anyone else? (you don't have to be
as long-winded!)
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Psychopixi
Fanatic   Posts: 376 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 26/12/2002 at 03:54 AM |
Divinity, morality and the origin of all things huh? Hmm, I don't have much
of an idea about the origin of life... I believe that there is a spirit, an
essence out there that is part of everything, but I don't know whether this
*created* everything.
Divinity - I believe there is a God and a Goddess, both being part of the
spirit, or the all. I see divinity in this way because it's easiest for me
to relate to and so work with, however I don't think that everyone needs to
worship a God and Goddess, or any Gods at all. I think all Gods in creation
are, essentially, the spirit, just seen in different ways to suit the
person worshipping it. I also believe in different pantheons of Gods and
Goddesses, such as the Celtic, Roman and Egyptian Gods. I think each of
these divine beings are part of the God or Goddess but represent a more
specific facet of the God/dess. Like there is a God of fertility, a Goddess
of love and so on. When I'm working magick this way of seeing the
God/desses makes it easier for me to work with the energy they
represent.
Morality. Hmm. I'm Pagan, I'm beginning to debate whether I'd call myself
Wiccan. I don't believe in the threefold law. I see no reason to. It was
invented by Gardener and was probably not even meant to be taken terribly
seriously. This doesn't mean I excuse myself from morals - I just don't
hide behind a law - I don't hurt people because I don't *want* to, not
because I'm not allowed to. This doesn't mean that I won't at some time in
the future though. I'm not going to say I'll never hurt anyone else,
because that is rather unrealistic. However, I don't think that the law of
return is going to come up and bite me on the arse. I think there must be a
balance in everything - light and dark, day and night, good and bad. Inside
us all there is a good side and a bad side. I think that if you try to hide
the bad side away, never giving vent to your feelings when you're angry or
upset, then you're going to damage yourself. It isn't *natural* to be happy
all the time, and if you try to act in that way you're going to have
trouble dealing when bad stuff happens. Likewise, if you don't acknowledge
the capability within yourself for hurting people then when you need to
release those feelings you won't be able to because you've pretended they
aren't even there. Instead of finding a healthy and non-harmful outlet for
them they'll just bubble under the surface of your personality, and I
wouldn't like to be around you when you snap. ____________________
Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life.
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Ironboots
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 893 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 26/12/2002 at 03:58 PM |
I am not sure about the origin of all as well. I follow more of a
scientological perspective here, believing in the big bang and evolution,
but even that does not explain it all. For one, where did the big bang come
from? Man will never know. At least at his present level of intelligence.
All that really concerns me is the Earth. Its my home, your home, and
everyone I know's home. Its just the natural place for us. I don't know
why.
I agree with Schizo in that all evil results from both minor and large gaps
in respect for living things. The man who chops down a forest solely to
make money is evil. The game hunter who kills animals for 'sport' is evil.
Even like Schizo said, the roadbuilders who tear up the plants are evil.
For the most part, I think we are all forgiving of minor offences. It does
not make them right, though, and they all contribute to a larger world of
disrespect.
As for spirits, I'm not quite sure. I know there's more than meets the eye,
but most of the time humans are too distracted to see it in others. This is
partly responsible for disrespect. To recognize this invisible element is
to value them (not money value. Life value)
Basically, it boils down to two rules of life.
1. Smile.
2. Smile on others.
Post Script: Schizo, you wrote a kickass creed right there...  ____________________
Piggy's got the Conch!
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DarkMistress
Member   Posts: 170 Registered: 6/6/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 26/12/2002 at 09:25 PM |
When asked about my religion I normally say Dark Pagan because it's easiest
and people will leave it at that. However I also follow some branches of
the green path and I'm an okay healer (which is sometimes considered part
of the 'light'). I'm basically the same with Psyche except I'm probably
never going to call myself Wiccan (well who knows?) and our morals are
basically the same.
____________________
"Pity no one was there
No angels in the air
And the morning paper ran
One more suicide"
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 26/12/2002 at 11:50 PM |
I just stick with satanism...it's easy, it's fun, and it's brutally honest.
Mostly because I didn't have to change a goddamned thing about myself to
make it work.
It's peppered with some other ideas of my own...but I stick to the main
line of "no diety. I worship me. I blame me. I am my own."
Plus, NOBODY gets down like the devil *chicka BOW BOW chicka chicka*
The way I figure it is this:
SOMETHING happened....I seriously just CAN'T make myself believe, as much
as I would LIKE to, that SOMETHING/ONE started it all. The right blobs of
gaseous things marauding around a blah somewhat vaccuous pre space..uh
space..ran into each other and went blammy. Set things in motion that just
happened, of all things, to work out a gazillion eons later and put us
where we are today.
As for humanity itself, we didn't come from monkeys or even apes, but
somewhere millions of years ago we did share a common ancestor...a primate
neither ape nor human. We just developed different needs to our enviroment
and well...just took the idea and ran with it.
OR...(big fat OR) something/one flipped the switch.
I just can't make myself believe this, but hey....I wasn't there.
Religion BEGAN as a means for primitive minds to explain the fearful, the
wonderful, the stupifying....and like we always did before, took the idea
and RAN like the dickens.
Or perhaps it's a sort of racial memory...genetically encoded in our brains
to think about it and wonder and try to understand, JUST nagging RIGHT out
of our grasp until the moment of death.
It's a sticky wicket....I don't bother with it one way or another because
I'll know when I'm fertilizer.
I think you should start up your bastard religion....churches are tax free
you know
I'm starting mine....the self-absorbed satanic vegans for the worship of
the god of soy....eat tofutti, as it is of his very flesh...uh
byproduct.
____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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Schizo
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 897 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 27/12/2002 at 08:18 AM |
Naah, I don't think I want to start my own religion, as sweet as getting
out of taxes sounds. I feel very strongly that people should figure it out
for themselves, and not take it spoon-fed from someone else, however
wise.
Yeah, study other religions, even practice them for a bit to get their
flavor. Stick with it if you like the feel of it. Every one has a little
something that none of the others have that may help you figure things out.
I suppose it really isn't that necessary even to care anything about
origins, or have a well-thought-out morality. Some people just don't care,
and just want to live their lives.
I guess since I started out so religion (i.e. Christianity)-focused, the
natural progression is to first, realize I really don't agree with what
I've been taught, and next, try to figure out, what the hell DO I think?
Thus my great quest to figure out what's going on out there.
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 27/12/2002 at 09:24 PM |
This reminds me of stephen hawkings "the origin of the universe" or
something like that....THE smartest man on the face of the earth even said
"There are some things that man just cannot know".
And you don't have to spoon feed people to get out of taxes darlin. Start
a ? church...you know, us "?" as your name, like prince, say it's only
pronounceable by YOU and if YOU don't know how to say it YOU'RE not gonna
TELL THEM (that'll REALLY irritate people). Then once a week or once a
month you have a potluck, everyone sits around and bullshits, drops cash in
the collection urinal, and goes home.
by the way schitz, it's fucking FABULOUS to have you back ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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Schizo
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 897 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 28/12/2002 at 08:14 AM |
Thanks, Bettie! It's fucking fabulous to BE back!
I'm driving my boyfriend batty hogging the computer and trying to catch up
on everything that's happened in Shmeng since I was last here! I swear on
my grandmother's grave, I will never be computerless again! (knock on
wood!)
You know what? It's hard to type with a baby on your lap! Riley gets
jealous of the computer!
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 29/12/2002 at 12:54 AM |
I bet it's as difficult as a cat or a rat vying for your attention.
Mine go crazy.
Every try typing with a nosy rat in your sleeve? Requires much dexterity,
I tell you that.
I've tried the computer thing with my sister's baby, and yes.....they don't
like it much 
I missed our dear mother confessor and ass chewer a LOT.
It meas a lot to me and I'm sure countless others here to see your name in
the mix again.
We missed you darlin
____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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AloneSoul
Fanatic  Posts: 522 Registered: 6/7/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 2/1/2003 at 05:14 AM |
Divinity: This has a thin line between delusion and reality, trick and
truth. Some people can convince themselves and others that they are a god
upon the earth.
Truth: Divinity, nirvana, these can be achieved with the aid of whatever
your beliefs are. Religious or not.
Trick: Zealots, fascism...mass religious organizations bent on control
rather than the enhancement of their followers lives. You cannot achieve
enhancement with a total dictatorship of the mind and body.
Morality: The ultimate jest in which life/reality subjects us to or a
journey towards enlightenment...I cannot tell which one is for certain,
even with my beliefs.
Origins: I personally believe there is a power at work beyond science,
beyond explanation. I believe there is a god, a spirit, forces of good and
evil at work.
...I don’t believe in things such as fate- I don’t like the thought of
having my life preset from the start. ____________________
 but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living
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Comedian
Fanatic  Posts: 213 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 2/1/2003 at 07:34 AM |
I am a speck of dust on a grain of sand on a long beac that stretches to
infinity.
Divinity is merely the next step beyond mortality; but they are all
nothing. All that they control is merely upon this single grain of sand.
The secret chiefs of the world have declared me to be both sexier than
Buddha and harder than Jesus. I cannot die.
Morality is simply the code you use to keep your sanity in tact no matter
how much you defile on a path of some kind of divinity. THe larger and
more complex your code, the more difficult it becomes to explain to others
and the more horrible things you can fit under it while still keeping your
sanity relatively in tact. I, for instance, could kill, organleg, and sell
the corpse of a child to necrophile artists for money and still be
justified in my code.
Origins are the most difficult thing to explain if you believe in the
ultimate power of divinity. Atheists have an easy time; a hyperdense globe
of matter explodes for reasons possibly unknown and begins to expand wildly
outward, while all within it begins to swirl in chaos, life being born of
microparticles and haphazard and almost unbelievable accidents of forces
within that globe. Others believe tha big white oppressor is sitting up
somewhere in a robe playing "who's got the bigger dick" games with people
he created on earth out of sheer boredom.
Under those two glaringly different perspectives, I'll split the difference
and side with Calvin: "I believe time is non-linear, therefore I cannot do
this math homework." ____________________
Make way for the bad guy!
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 2/1/2003 at 07:21 PM |
If life is preset (ie: destiny) then someone tell me where to find the
fucking RESET button. Maybe I can take a video editing class, cut the bad
shit, paste the good shit, and START OVER!
*starts poking random spots* it's gotta be here somewhere..... ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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IamSquid
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 658 Registered: 27/5/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 2/1/2003 at 10:51 PM |
Oh man, how long do yoo want mee to speak for?
Alright, I'm coming back and replying when I can really sit down and write
for a while.
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 2/1/2003 at 11:54 PM |
| Alright sushi breath, let it FLY brotha! ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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IamSquid
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 658 Registered: 27/5/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 3/1/2003 at 03:32 AM |
Alright, I'm gonna go on one tyraid at a time:
Any kind of spiritual method of thinking has to begin with one qustion:
What do yoo believe? Is the whole of yor exsistance chemical reactions and
physical processes or is there something more? i.e. Is there such a thing
as the spirit.
If yoo believe there is no spirit or soul, that consciousness is an
illsuion of electro/chemical reactions, physical processes, predictable
stimuli, and nothing more then nothing really matters does it? So why not
go out and rob and rape and kill as yoo please because it's all a game,
right? This is a perfectly rational way of behaving if that is truly what
yoo believe.
On the other hand: If yoo believe that yoo do have a soul, that yoo are
not limited to physical manifestation, that perhaps there may be a greater
spirit or soul of the world (be it a creator, or whatever), then yoo damn
well better figure out what that means and live by it.
I find nothing more offensive than people who claim to serve their god of
some kind and blatently disobey the essence of their god except perhaps
people who claim to be spiritual nihilists and behave like fucking
puritans!
Once this first belief has been established (be it true or flase), the rest
of a system of spiritual beliefs can begin. Of course there is one simple
belief that must be assumed before we can even get to this point but it's
so obvious it need not be mentioned. ____________________
i wanted to die, and then it progressed into wanting everyone else to
die so i could watch, and then me die.
-ickgirl
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Starlight
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 618 Registered: 27/9/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 3/1/2003 at 04:08 AM |
| I am currently referring to myself as a "Non-Denominational Pagan". I do
what I think is right and I let it go at that. People either love me or
hate me and oh well I keep right on moving along anyways. I tested out
some organized cultist/propanga organizations...err commonly called
religions...and I've decided they all suck in their own very special ways.
So I do my own thing and expect that others will do their own thing and
co-exist or kindly get the fuck out of my way. *smiles softly* ____________________
"When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I've never
tried before." ~Mae West
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IamSquid
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 658 Registered: 27/5/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 4/1/2003 at 12:53 AM |
Once yoo have established yor belief or disbelief in a soul, the next step
is working-out yor beliefs. This is a life-long persuit durring which time
yoo'll go back and modify yor previous beliefs and find that yoo were just
plain wrong about certain things. Being wrong is okay as long as yoo admit
yoo didn't know better at the time and correct yorself.
In my own personal system of beliefs I refuse to believe anything which
either cannot be directly observed or evidence suggests is not so. I
always make an exception for cases of intuition but immediatly test such
cases. It's also always important to keep an open mind and remember yoo
can always be horribly wrong about even the largest cornerstones of yor
philosophy.
A good place to start is to decided whether or not yoo believe in some form
of god. Thomas Aquinais, for example, has 7 "proofs" of the exsistance of
God. I find it interesting that many Xians object to the concept of
Evolution when I find that Evolution is a terriffic argument for the
exsistance of a greater intelligence. ____________________
i wanted to die, and then it progressed into wanting everyone else to
die so i could watch, and then me die.
-ickgirl
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Dolorosa
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 856 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 5/1/2003 at 08:15 AM |
Hrmm...I think I'll wax serious on this one, I went on a vision quest not
too long ago and codified some of my own beliefs lately.
I believe, personally, that existance is sorta' like an onion. Layers upon
layers of matera that together form a singular whole. From where we are,
and the way we live, we view the entire onion itself. But there and heavens
and hells, Loas and Kachina's, Ghosts and echoes...somewhere in the mesh is
God and the Devil and in another part...there is absolutely nothing. Ten
thousands existances, ten thousand different directions...but when you
really get down to it, it's simply an onion. Divinity, I believe...exists
to those who believe in it...and it can influence there existance, however
to those who do not believe in it, it doesn't really exist. Me, I find
comfort in having Coyote looking over my shoulder... so as far as I can
figure, there he is. Someone else might see him, or they might see an
angel, their conscience...or maybe they have a personal reserve of energy
they draw on. I dunno'...I don't fully understand it myself but best I can
sum it is...all roads exist, because by concieving of them, they
exist...and although it may seem like some would cancel themselves out,
they really just slip past one another in relation to their respective
layers...
Bleagh...cough cough.
And...damn, I just managed to confuse the crap out of myself...
Anyhow...onions...I believe in onions...bigguns. ____________________
In the valley of the Goats, the Goat Fucker is King
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Squire-of-Gothos
Fanatic  Posts: 206 Registered: 1/1/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 5/1/2003 at 01:18 PM |
| I think the problem facing religions today was stated well in "Dogma".
Faith is a moving, living, organism, sort of like this mass of shaking
jelly. A belief structure is a hard, unmoving, weak structure, because it
expects all different types of people to believe the exact same thing, an
if theres anything I've learned from this site, people rarely agree totally
with everything. Putting this belief structure on faith is like building
the tower of piza on mud. It leaned. When some people in the group began
disagreeing on a part of the belief structure, they split. Now you
Catholics, Christians, Baptists, Protestanst, Agnostics, etc. I think it
may be because Chistianity And Catholisism where particualy binding
religions, forcing people to branch out to be happy. The only way you can
keep this from happening is a free religion, and in and of itself, thats
not religion. I always say just have faith if you want, but things get
tricky when rules and regulations, and stories that can, and sometimes do,
turn out to be wrong get thrown in. ____________________
“The only thing that can alter the good writer is death.”
“You know that if I were reincarnated, I’d want to come back a buzzard.
Nothing hates him. He is never bothered or in danger, and he can eat
anything.”
Faulkner
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W0rmW00d
Fanatic  Posts: 355 Registered: 5/8/2004 Status: Offline
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posted on 6/8/2004 at 08:31 PM |
Amen to I am squid.
I personally am of the 'all just physics' bent, and I'll tell you why I
don't just go around raping, murdering and stealing. Few other people
beleive the same as me. I would get locked away and that would not
constitute an enjoyable time. I know that enjoyment is just chemicals, but
it feels to me that i feel, so it would be foolish to act upon my every
whim, though there is no other reason to do so. Also, i just dont really
feel like raping or murdering. sounds wishy washy, but theres no real
attraction in them to me. maybe one day there will be.
ok, my beleifs.
Origins: Terry Pratchett puts it beautifully. In the beginning there was
nothing, which exploded. This is probably not wholly accurate, and i dont
know if we will ever find out what happened to cause the big bang, or what
went on before it, if anything, but its amusing, concise, and as good an
expression of it as i have yet found.
Dvinity: As you may be able to tell, I beleive there is none. Depressing,
yes. Difficult, yes. But the random fluctuations of energy waves coupled
with predictable interactions leaves me with no other choice of beleif, at
least until I am given an alternate satisfactory explanation. You could see
this vast 'energy soup' as the spirit of which some speak, but to me the
idea of spirit begets a consciousness. I can beleive in ghosts, perhaps
some form of electronic residue? I don't know, I have never found
sufficient evidence to suggest that they exist, but I do not rule it out.
Mind reading? Perhaps, since our 'mind' is mostly whizzing electrons, and
they create an electromagnetic field, however small, and are also affected
by one, then why not some minds more sensitive to, and vaguely able to
interpret, the movement of things in others' minds? Again, I have seen no
good enough evidence for it, but I am willing for it to exist. These sorts
of things are what I feel would betray the existence of a human spirit or
some deity, but if they are explainable in terms of physics then there is
no need for that explanation.
Morality: none, for reasons given above and elsewhere. ____________________
Eritis sicut Deus scientes bonum et malum.
And the third angel sounded, and a troll army did descend upon the world.
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