How did this WTC and Pentagon thing come about? Whay is everyone blaming
someone we don´t even know? <BR>Is it just me, or is
something bad about to happen, be it mass prejudice or WW 3? <BR>Nostradamus might´ve been right... you never know. <BR>Anyway, everyone else seems to think of it as a big deal. I
could type a rant of the things I´ve heard, seen, and argued with, but
that´ll have to wait. <BR>I honestly don´t care what happens.
I´ve read enough science fiction to be prepared for almost anything. <BR> <BR>What is everyone else outside of sweet
Georgia thinking? Is everyone else panicking as much as the not so civil
civilians here? <BR>How does the rest of the world feel about
this, truthfully? <BR>
____________________ The perfect mind is like a mirror. It grasps nothing. It expects nothing.
It reflects but does not hold. Therefore, the perfect man can act without
effort.
~Chuang Tsu
Ironboots
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 893 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 12/9/2001 at 04:27 PM
I know how you feel, and I don´t want this going to war, nor towards
prejudice. I might get drafted (cowardly me, but I also dont agree with it)
and one of my friends is a very nice palestinian. <BR>I think
people are just really angry, that this has happened, that this sort of
thing continues, and will probably still continue. <BR> <BR>The world has changed, and people are scared of that. <BR> <BR>And as long as there are people that are
pissed at the person that threw the last punch, there will always be this
sort of violence. To paraphrase a peanuts cartoon: <BR> <BR> "I have noticed, that when you injure someone else, there is
a tendency for them to want to strike back."
____________________ Piggy's got the Conch!
chameleon
Member
Posts: 83 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 13/9/2001 at 06:17 PM
Damn straight, but the problem is, there are too many improbabilities. We
don´t knwo where the flights came from precisely, and there is just too
much other stuff to worry about. <BR> <BR>I´m so
somber, I´m cynical, and i just fell like saying that hell wil swallow the
world if we pull off another Vietnam War experience. <BR> <BR>Oh, don´t be afraid of being drafted. YOu could move to
another country. England is very nice, if you have money, and I heard
France was a pretty calm spot to be.
____________________ The perfect mind is like a mirror. It grasps nothing. It expects
nothing.
It reflects but does not hold. Therefore, the perfect man can act
without
effort.
~Chuang Tsu
Ironboots
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 893 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 15/9/2001 at 01:34 PM
I´m feeling a lot better, since life is back to normal for me, the
west-coast guy. It seems pretty far away now... <BR> <BR>As for getting drafted, you´re right. I was thinking going
traditional (Canada) but a five year vacation in France or England would
sound nice...
____________________ Piggy's got the Conch!
Coal_Hearted_1
Coward
Posts: 3 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 16/9/2001 at 01:16 AM
Personaly I think that Americans are just pissed off that someone caught
them with their pants down:lol: even after Bin Ladden threatened after so
many months. <BR>In May he said somehthing will happen in a
few weeks....you waited...nothing happend and everything went back to
normal. <BR>BAMB! Your hit! "where the fuck did that come
from?" <BR> <BR>America was caught off gard and
thier <BR>pissed:-X so thier looking for someone to punnish
and they dont give a flying fuck who they hit...innocent or not.:evil: <BR> <BR>Weather you like it or not, American or
not...war will happen. Who knows how big this will be. <BR>Ironboots, your best chance to not get drafted is to move to a
place that is not backed up by Nato...china maybe. If America goes to war
Canada, England, France etc, will be tugging on America´s uniform coat.
We´re going down with you. <IMG
SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_frown.gif">
____________________
Ironboots
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 893 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 17/9/2001 at 04:24 PM
Rats...
____________________ Piggy's got the Conch!
chameleon
Member
Posts: 83 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 17/9/2001 at 06:03 PM
Coal hearted, you are so right. We, as a whole, are stupid Americans who
think we can stand a chance against everyone nowandays. (by the way coal,
you talk like you´re from another country. which one?) <BR>If
you look at the facts though, our maximum military is about 2.5 mil, and
China´s is about 1 billion. If they allied with a coutnry that supplie
dthem boats and weapons, we would be in deep shit. <BR> <BR>Back to stupid americans... Obviously, some of us are ignorant
slobs, who praise god for what can´t be proven and such. I myself read
chinese psychology and theology (no joke) for enlightenment. Note of
consciousness, don´t assume, cuz it might make someone angry.
____________________ The perfect mind is like a mirror. It grasps nothing. It expects
nothing.
It reflects but does not hold. Therefore, the perfect man can act
without
effort.
~Chuang Tsu
Abbadon
Fanatic
Posts: 499 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 22/2/2002 at 01:16 PM
I feel bad because I keep saying I like things. I don´t think that is a
very ´goth´ thing to do. So... I hate Osama Bin Ladin, no reason mind, he´s
a decent enough bloke, nobody proved it was him.
____________________ Light is changing to shadow, and casting a shroud over all we have known.
Ironboots
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 893 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 24/2/2002 at 01:49 AM
I have been following your string of postings around the forums... And I
have a question to ask... <BR> <BR>Are you trying
to get a point across or are you high?!! <BR> <BR>In all seriousness....
okay, though Ive said more than enough on this topic, I´m going to delve in
one more time. <BR> <BR>Stupid americans, maybe,
probably, most of us anyway....but you have to look at it this way. <BR>What has the average, cowed, STUPID american done to the
people responsible for the attack? Nothing. Did the elevator operators in
those buildings hop on the line and diss their momma´s? Did the
advertising execs and stock brokers go kick sand in their eyes? Kill one
of their babies? Rape one of their daughters? <BR>The answer
is no, they didn´t. They were at work...on computers, in elevators, at
lunch. Like THAT, they were murdered by people they´ve never seen, for
crimes they didn´t commit, for a problem they didn´t create. How did they
have it coming? How did they deserve that? How did the families that will
never have that loved one come home from the office deserve it? Or the pet
starving in a dead man´s apartment because he´s never coming home again,
came to the big city to make a good life, and now his cat or dog or
whatever will never see them again and might have starved to death had
someone not realized these people had animals locked away? <BR>Americans aren´t stupid. Undereducated, diluded, lulled into
a false sense of security by television and media and politicians who daily
assure us we´re "untouchable". <BR>We aren´t bad people. We
try, but there is only so much we can do. YES we put bin laden in power to
begin with, but at the time it probably seemed a good idea, that he wasn´t
a bad person, that he could fix his people´s problems...because he, like
ALL politicians, not just american ones, LIE to get what they want. To
accomplish their agenda at all costs. <BR>Yeah, it´s cool to
pretend you know what anarchy is, to hate the government, to hate your
country, to wallow in everlasting pessimistic self loathing. Great,
fantastic. <BR>I´m not some right wing flag waving patriotic
nut. But I´m not about to say we had it coming, not about to blame myself
or those who died, and not about to pity a cave dwelling jerkoff who is a
disgrace to his nation and his faith. <BR>"we´re killing
innocent people"...yeah, well join the club. They kill their own people
every day, they teach their children to kill, the murder women for
revealing and inch of skin, a strand of hair, for trying feebly to gain
some self control in a society that treats them less that americans treat
cattle. They turn internationally funded soccer stadiums, saying that if
WE´D just cough up the bucks for a "suitable" execution facility, they´d
let people play soccer in it, and not use the penalty line near the goal
post as a kneeling procession for mass executions. <BR>A lot of
people will disagree with me....I just say they´re lucky georgie didn´t try
to outdo his old man and turn that entire desert into a nice new glass
skate rink. If innocent people die, it´s because the people responsible
PUT those people into harms way....so we´d get soft and say "oooh, but look
at all the innocent people dying" and they´d get off scott free because of
bleeding hearts...the same bleeding hearts and softies that "allowed" this
attack to happen to begin with. <BR>If we´d just lain down and
said "ooh, that sucks, sorry, but we can´t do anything because someone may
get hurt" people would have been crying BLOOD, and "what about us?" <BR>So we did something, tried to eliminate the enemy with minimal
cost of civilian lives (which is BOUND to happen in any confrontation) they
cry MERCY "what about THEM?!" <BR>Nobody´ll ever be happy. <BR>I´m in favor of doing whatever it takes to blast the
motherfucker out of the hills and bring back what is left of him in a
ziplock bag to throw darts at. Tit for tat. For all the bible lovers "eye
for an eye". <BR>It IS bin laden...he admitted it himself, he
expressed GREAT joy for the 5K lives exterminated at his beconing. <BR>This all makes me sick...I think george was handling it fine
at first, if not dragging his feet, but now he´s in over his head. Too
many people are getting involved, too much finger pointing, too many
unfounded accusations. I know I´M getting nervous with all the suicide
bombings in Israel, the utter and complete chaos that has ensued....it´s
going to be ugly, boys and girls. I´m ALL for remembering who threw the
first punch. <BR>I´d rather be seen as a force to be reconed
with than a goddamned sitting duck. <BR>And we do care who we
hit, thank you very much. THEY DID. They wanted a high casualty civilian
target. They selected planes that were making cross country trips so they
would have the most fuel on board so they would BURN HOTTER AND LONGER WHEN
THEY CRASHED INTO THE BUILDINGS. <BR>Yeah, we´re pissed.
We´re pissed that our government has lulled us into a false sense of
security while they run willy nilly causing trouble or not...we´re pissed
that someone killed 5K people who were innocent and uninvolved in the
terrorist´s problems...we´re pissed that we were so venerable when we were
told we were not. I´m pissed at all the bleeding hearts that piss and moan
about what we´re doing, instead of seeing BOTH sides...that the attack on
us is the explosive tip of the proverbial iceberg...that we´re not the only
one´s they´ve messed with, we´re just the ones that screamed the loudest in
pain and indignation. <BR>If the meek shall inherit the earth,
it´s not an earth I would want to survive in. <BR>
____________________ Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
Sardonic-Pain
Fanatic
Posts: 248 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 1/4/2002 at 10:29 PM
i Find this to me the most appropriate time to say Amen. Dont you?
____________________ My Life is like a porno-Without the sex-Just the weird music
All I have to add is that if we let ourselves cool off, let this blow over,
forget our anger, indignation, outrage, pain...this is going to happen over
and over and over again and people will again be sitting on their ass in a
ruined city thinking "what happened?" <BR>I´M not over it and
I´m way on the other side of the goddamned continent. I lost 5k countrymen
in the blink of an eye, and it makes me FURIOUS...even more furious to
think they´ll get away from it. Hell, if my boss and I had our way, we´d
send planes over, evacuate all that want out, and set the sand on
FIRE...then wait for the radiation to cool off and pop those that crawl out
of the dunes. <BR>"I´m sorry for everything that´s happened to
you, I´m sorry for the things that we´ve been responsible for or not, I´m
sorry this had to happen. All who want out, get out, with our help. The
rest of you GOODBYE motherfuckers...step up bitch, you fucked with the
wrong country. I´m saving a seat in hell JUST for you" <BR>quote my boss. <BR>I´m not that militant about it,
though <IMG SRC="images/smilies/icon_smile.gif"> <BR>But
the next fucking hippy that comes up to me and says "we´re hurting others,
violence begets violence, don´t retaliate" <BR>I´m gonna punch
them in the face. When they get up and try to hit me back, I´ll just say
"now now, violence begets violence. PEACE BRUTHAAA" <BR>And to
those that think the prisoners in cuba are being mistreated, ask a NYer
what they think of it, and they´ll say they´re being treated TOO GOOD. <BR> <BR>and Sardonic....A- fucking - MEN
____________________ Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
Ironboots
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 893 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 2/4/2002 at 09:25 AM
There are many people who would sit in shrub´s office, and who would do a
better job, Bettie for one... <BR> <BR>I don´t
like Bush, and I don´t like the way he´s going about it. Guerilla forces
are great, if you know where your enemy is. But when the guys are
scattering, you need lots of men to form a net... And tearing up the Arctic
Refuge isn´t going to solve any of our problems. I think the best way to
solve it is to back down. They´re fighting for something... There is
-something- that they want. If its imperialism, politics, whatever... I
think it would be best to give it to them (restraint exercised, of course).
Remember that story whatever of the lion with the thorn in its paw? Take
the thorn out and its nice to you. <BR> <BR>"I love
my country; Its the government I´m afraid of"
____________________ Piggy's got the Conch!
DarkTigress
Member
Posts: 104 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 2/4/2002 at 01:32 PM
Well, about the WTC and Pentagon. It´s quite amusing in a sad way that
every reacts the way they do. I mean, Afghanistan have been in war way
longer than I can remember, begging the world to help them. No help. The
war ends, but yet they need help with medecine. Still no help. Children
dies, people dies... but no one cares, because it´s so far away from them.
Then one day this event happens. The president quickly looks for someone to
blame, so that he won´t be blamed himself... and he finds Usama... and
suddenly, they start bombing Afghanistan, saying they pay back for all
lives that were put out in the terrorist attacks... and also for what the
president thinks is right. Who thinks of that many more people died in
Afghanistan before the attacks? Who thinks that we ALL are guilty for not
helping, even the US and the president? Who thinks about how many people
that die there now, that have suffered already and aren´t even guilty? No
one... because the attacks shattered our little fantasy of being safe. It´s
really sad... I could go on and on about this. I am not saying whoever did
the attacks are right, who seem to be Usama. But neither am I saying that
the US is right, because they aren´t. No one is never right in a war. I
mean, Usama fought for what he believed in, and the US does the same...
they are both as good, or as I think, as bad.The wise one is the one who
stops it. <BR> <BR>For the question ´What the hell
happend?´ I only have one answer: Man´s nature showed itself fully, in a
larger scale than it use to.
____________________ ~The World Can Continue It's Excistence Without Mankind... But What Happens
To The Mankind When The Earth Is Gone?~
Schizo
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 897 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 2/4/2002 at 10:33 PM
Bettie´s my hero! Nice to know matrimony hasn´t tamed you! No one else
can deliver such a refreshingly sensible tirade like you can! <BR> <BR>I agree. Bush is a dickhead. He´s a
politician, what did you expect? They only let dickhead politicians run
for president. Who in their right mind would want the job anyway? <BR> <BR>But I think it´s silly to say at this point
"we should have intervened in Afghanistan earlier". The point is, we
needed to now, and we did. Whatever our failings were in the past. And
it´s also silly to blame Bush for America´s policies toward the country in
the past. Hell, he hadn´t even been in office a year! <BR> <BR>And as for those who say we´re just as bad as the terrorists
for killing innocent people, I have this to say - terrorists kill innocents
on purpose. It´s what they do. We do our damnedest to avoid them, and
mourn when we either make a mistake in our target, or find it necessary to
risk them to take out a strategic point. Which, if we didn´t take it out,
would likely allow the terrorists a chance to purposefully kill more
people. <BR> <BR>Also, not a single terrorist
lifted a finger to help rebuild NYC. Whereas America spends almost more
time rebuilding Afghanistan than it does in destroying things, eventually
leaving the place nicer than when they came. <BR> <BR>Bit of a difference, what? <BR> <BR>And to those who say violence breeds violence, I say of
course! Osama´s violence bred Georgie´s! Terrorism was the cause, warfare
the effect. Once the effect takes out the cause, then the violence has run
its course. Until some other motherfucker decides to start the cycle
again. <BR> <BR>Seems to me that America is
generally more interested in finishing the cycle than beginning it. <BR> <BR>Of course we don´t want to go slashing with
our scalpels unnecessarily, but when cancer needs to be cut out, sometimes
the only answer is a well-guided blade.
____________________ "You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of
girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"
Meranda_Jade
Fanatic
Posts: 511 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 3/4/2002 at 02:40 PM
Ironboots... there is always -something- terrorists want. That´s why
they´re using terror tactics. The thing is, with these people, you can´t
just give them what they want. It´s the same thing as with children, if
they throw a temper tantrum, and you give them the toy they were throwing a
fit about, they will throw another tantrum the next time they want
something, and if you keep giving them what they want, they will always
want more. So, you can´t give these people what they want. <BR>In this case, the lion would just as soon turn on you after it
had licked it´s paw...
____________________
Anonymous
Posts: 116 Registered: 14/4/2002 Status: Offline
posted on 3/4/2002 at 10:11 PM
This is DarkTigress...too lazy to sign in *lol* I´m on my way to bed, but I
just wanted to say one thing- <BR>Who are anyone to judge what
should be judged as the ´cancer´? I mean... the terrorists might feel
exactly the same. I am 100% against innocent killing... don´t get me
wrong... it´s just that no one can be right in a war. Sure they killed
innocent on purpose... but really, didn´t people kill afghanistans, kind of
on purpose, by not helping? Sure lil Bushie boy weren´t president when all
that happend... but he can change it now. But what I know, he bombed
afghanistan back more than it deserved, claiming that he didn´t kill
civilians. I might be way old-fashion, but what I know of, bombs don´t go
"oh guilt, bang dead, oh innocent, I shall not hit". Of course there´s
always a chance that innocent gets killed, and they do. Also, I got very
happy when I heard the US if helping Afghanistan... but then I heard...
that once UN and other countries started to help as well, the US totally
stopped. Why? There can never be too much help? <BR>All this
sounds like I am blaming the US... trust me... I do not. I am just looking
at both sides... I think both is way wrong. I want to move to the US when I
can, and get a job for the gov there... but I still think you have to see
both sides. As I probably said earlier, war is never right. No human is
capable of judging what side really is the ´cancer´. Terrorists suck big
time... sure... but maybe they have their reasons to suck... maybe they
wouldn´t suck if someone would understand them. Well anyway, I´ll write
things that makes more sence after sleep. Now g´night. And don´t take
anything personal of what I wrote, alright? No need to start a Shmeng war
when there´s already plenty of wars out there in the world...
____________________
Rae
Occasional Poster
Posts: 23 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 4/4/2002 at 12:03 AM
 <BR>Bettie_x. I wish you could be nominated in the
upcoming presidential elections. You <BR>definitely would have
my support. <BR>This babble of how we are so terrible and waah
wahh wahh, is just so utterly irritating to me <BR>to the point
that it makes me want to regurgitate yesterday’s meal. <BR>America has given a lot to her neighboring countries as far as
financial support, she has <BR>forgiven billions upon billions
of dollars in debts that she was owed. How can you possibly <BR>make a sneer remark about us backing off in aide to
Afghanistan when the U.N. began to <BR>help? I say it’s about
damn time! The globes financial burdens have rested in America’s lap <BR>for far too long. <BR>Did you ever stop to think
that is why our health care system is so shitty? Why education <BR>has taken a back seat? Why this generation will not see social
security? And for crying out <BR>loud, why we have sooooooooo
many homeless people? I am so sick of the pacifist who pity <BR>people of another country, but are less than compassionate
about their own fellow citizens <BR>here in the United States
living on the streets and back alleys. Or, are our own people more <BR>expendable than those of a foreign land? To hear some of you
talk that is exactly the way it <BR>sounds. And wait till you
can not afford to survive because we have given so much aide to <BR>other countries, and we, the tax paying citizens have to make
up the difference for it. Before <BR>I am willing to give a
penny to another country who will continue this hatred, I would much <BR>rather take it down to the corners of D.C. and hand it to my
homeless brothers and sisters. I <BR>wouldn’t complain an ounce
if it went to them. <BR>Some of you are just so gullible about
what is going on here. This has nothing to do with <BR>America
hurting poor little Osama Bin Laden’s feelings by abandoning him back in
the 80´s, <BR>this has to do with someone who wants control,
power..and will do anything to get it. If you <BR>think that
some day this very same man will embrace America with love if we show
him <BR>love, you need a severe reality check. Yeah, he will
embrace you alright, with the kiss of <BR>death. This is a man
that would love to do nothing more than disembowel every European, <BR>American, Judean, Christian, and feed your guts to the camels.
He would much rather kill <BR>you then to look at you. <BR> This is about their Muslim religion, and how they want it to
be the ONLY religion. They want <BR>America and anything
outside the Muslim religion out of the middle east. They want Israel. <BR>Plain and simple. And we, are standing in the way. Just think,
Israel taken over by a Muslim <BR>state, would basically push
any influence we have over there completely out of the way. You <BR>let that happen, and we are in for some severe shit people. <BR>I don’t trust all these Muslims who cry there are completely
harmless neither, and if you <BR>don’t stay aware and take some
fundamental precautions, your going to find yourself caught <BR>with your pants down...again. I was at a site sometime ago,
before Sept 11th took place, and <BR>what I seen appalled me to
no end. It was a Muslim site who where speaking out to the <BR>African American community to rise up against all those who
are of European descent in this <BR>country, and railroad the
Europeans out. Nice, harmless Muslims, huh? Of course, I am not <BR>saying that EVERY Muslim follows this code of ethics, but the
extremists do. But how can <BR>you distinguish between the
extremist and the righteous ones? Quite hard. For me it is <BR>anyways. These people completely hate us and nothing you, me,
or anyone else does here is <BR>going to change that...nothing.
Their goal is to annihilate us..point, blank and period. They <BR>are sneaky, shrewd, manipulating, and back stabbing. Watch how
you straddle that fence, <BR>you just may fall in the wrong
territory and fine yourself quite screwed. And don’t even try <BR>to make a statement somewhere along the lines of I am a bigot
or blah, blah, blah, I am <BR>not. A lot of what I do know
comes from very good Pakistani and Indian friend of mine, and <BR>they don’t like these extremist either. I am not even going to
repeat what they call them. <BR>These people are here in
America, and we go to bed every night sleeping with the enemy. <BR>But, some of us are just to ignorant to this by our blinded
compassion. <BR>And there was no assuming who did this act,
pull your head from out of your butt and watch <BR>the news
sometime..the man admitted guilt..sheesh.
____________________ Free your mind and your ass will follow
Ironboots
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 893 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 4/4/2002 at 09:25 AM
Good argument, it has been proven that appeasment doesn´t work with tyrants
(Hitler), but I think that the leaders over there aren´t going for power.
Any fool can make his country powerful. Just look at Russia. Thirty years
after the revolution, Russia had turned from a farming country into an
industialized world power. A leader doesn´t have to resort to violence to
get that. <BR>What I think they want is for the US to stop
poking its head in and messing with their business. The Gulf War was okay,
it was protecting our petroleum intrests, ensuring a steady supply. But
what of Israel? Why do they get their own country? I don´t mind Zionism,
just as long as you don´t uproot people to make room for it. And I think
that is what the middle east is pissed at.
____________________ Piggy's got the Conch!
Rae
Occasional Poster
Posts: 23 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 4/4/2002 at 12:30 PM
The bottom line is this, "He who owns the oil rules the world". If Israel
were to ever be overthrown and become a Muslim state, they would have the
United States by the balls and we would be brought to our knees. They could
name a very high price, just to be pricks, or just bottle us up dry. And
considering how they feel about us "dirty pieces of swine", I am sure they
would love nothing more than to watch us all die very slow and painful
deaths of starvation. <BR>The United States has pretty much
stayed out of the religious quarrels as much as possible, we have only
acted as mediators at this point. Our interest in Israel is crucial to our
own survival here. Yes, we need oil regardless of what anyone says. Without
it, we would find ourselves in extreme economical distress. Gasoline prices
would rocket, people would not be able to afford oil to heat their home, so
many businesses would diminish, thus thousands upon thousands of jobs lost.
Even the farmer would not be able to survive, like it isn´t almost to that
point now. We would be looking at disasterous effects of famine and
homelessness in numbers we never thought possible. Crime would rise and
people taken over by hunger would kill you for a pack of oddles of
noodles. <BR>Let´s all speak about the effects on International
waters and security of our homeland. You can definitely bet on them making
sure we do not have access to cross, or the attempt to diminish it, this
spells war and more wars, Same for flights as well. Just to much at stake
here. We NEED Israel despite the disputes between them and the muslim
states. We are not interested in Converting anyone to our Western Culture
and belief systems just because we think it is the moral thing to do, we
are involved with Israel because we need to survive.
____________________ Free your mind and your ass will follow