DarkTigress
Member   Posts: 104 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 1/10/2002 at 01:51 PM |
Which do you think is most savage truly... the human race, or other
animals? Is really the human race animals?
I guess itīs a quite used topic, but it feels interesting to bring it up
again... if anyone wonders, yes I just saw The Island Of Dr. Moreau, and
yes I always get like this around a topic if I watch a movie or read a book
about it that makes me think... even if Iīve seen/read it before and
thought about it then too... thatīs just me :roll: ____________________
~The World Can Continue It's Excistence Without Mankind... But What Happens
To The Mankind When The Earth Is Gone?~
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Monolycus
Fanatic   Posts: 580 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 1/10/2002 at 02:27 PM |
To answer your second question first: Yes, Homo sapiens sapiens are really
and truly zoöns. If you wish to be more specific, we are mammals. There is
absolutely no reason beyond our own vanity to fancy that we are the only
things on this planet that are capable of thinking and feeling, nor do we
do it in any way that makes us in some way divine or biologically special.
We are not even the most biologically successful species on the planet-
that honour goes to the order of arthropods (and they are not nearly as
destructive to their habitat as we are). Is it vanity or insecurity that
motivates human beings to arrogate for themselves the imagined privilege of
being natureīs favourite creation?
As for your first question: That depends entirely upon your definition of
the word savage. I have not seen any evidence that any other species takes
as much sadistic delight in the suffering of others as ours does. I do not
know if that falls under savagery, but human beings are unquestionably the
least humane animals that the planet Earth has to offer.
~Monolycus. ____________________
"I believe that woman is planning to shoot me again."
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MorteAscendo
Member  Posts: 190 Registered: 6/5/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 1/10/2002 at 07:19 PM |
Agent Smith in the Matrix said it best:
"You are a virus" ____________________
"Roses are Red, Violets are Blue. I'm a schizophrenic, and so am I".
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Comedian
Fanatic  Posts: 213 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 1/10/2002 at 07:27 PM |
| Nature, red in fang and claw. ____________________
Make way for the bad guy!
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Alugarde
Member  Posts: 185 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 1/10/2002 at 11:02 PM |
| Animals kill for food, humans kill for sport. ____________________
l33t is the bastard cousin of contractions.
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DarkTigress
Member Posts: 104 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 2/10/2002 at 02:47 AM |
I agree with you all...
Although I think Iīve heard that there are animals that kill for
pleasure... if I remember right one of those species were the Tazmanian
Devil.
Another question for you, do you believe we are relatives with apes? I
thought of it, and the thing is that almost all species are part of a
family were there are different races of the same species, except for
humans. May it be that it exists other races on this earth that belong to
our species-family that we donīt know of yet... for example, can it be that
vampires do excist but not the way we think, but a relative to us? Yeah, I
know itīs extremly weird thoughts, but hey... itīs the pseudo-intellectual
fuckwits forum so :-D ____________________
~The World Can Continue It's Excistence Without Mankind... But What
Happens
To The Mankind When The Earth Is Gone?~
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Monolycus
Fanatic Posts: 580 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 2/10/2002 at 04:37 AM |
Tasmanian devils kill within their home range to protect their boundaries.
There is no empirical evidence that they get a kick out of doing it. There
was a myth that the wolverine kills for pleasure, but zoölogists are slowly
gathering evidence that that, too, is false.
Yes, we are related to apes (and, by extension, monkeys). We are all
primates. Human beings are the last surviving anthropoids in the
superfamily of Hominidae. The current belief is that there were other
"races" in the neighbourhood of 10,000-15,000 years ago, but Homo sapiens
sapiens wiped them all out. Was it for food or sport? Who can say.
~Monolycus. ____________________
"I believe that woman is planning to shoot me again."
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ShadezofDys
Occasional Poster   Posts: 17 Registered: 29/8/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 2/10/2002 at 09:14 AM |
Iīd have to say that people in general are the most savage animal on the
planet, and by savage I mean joyfully destructive, hell, I know how much
fun it is to destroy, isnīt always a bad thing either, but anyhow, thatīs
my opinion there
next Iīd have to say that our (as humans) insecurity leads to the
arrogance, we do seem to be the most death obsessive creature on the planet
(I know itīs a bit of an understatement, hell, look at the egyptians,
victorians or really any society) and that leads us to both make ourselves
feel better about our mortality (we are the most special thing ever!) and
furthermore to imagine oh so many different ways our souls (or whatever)
will continue to live on beyond our meer mortal years (and itīs an oh so
convenient way to control not only peoples actions but their thoughts as
well)
as for the evolution deal, I donīt know, I wasnīt there, I think that we
can only really guess at that one as science is ever evolving (as is just
about everything, which lends credince to the evolution idea) there will
always be new information on the subject, but while I donīt know if I were
made to bet Iīd put my money on us just being bald monkeys ::nods:: ____________________
Cause my name ain't Quasimodo but I still got a hunch
That like the Jim Jones cult I'll take you out with one punch
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic   Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 2/10/2002 at 02:36 PM |
Humans kill for sport. So do orca whales. Chimpanzees. Tazmanian Devils.
Bull sharks.
Bull sharks kill for the hell of it, but you have to understand that they
have as much testosterone in their systems around the clock as do full size
adult male bull eliphants in mating season.
Our advantage and our success is due to more reasons than savagery...our
intelligence played the most important role. The ability to form language
and communicate, our devicive use of tools, our ability to invent and
better those tools, and our adaptability to our enviorments such as
clothing, building of dwellings, growing and hunting.
Visciousness is just one of our traits...and weīre not alone in that
respect. Weīre just better at it.
____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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MorteAscendo
Member Posts: 190 Registered: 6/5/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 2/10/2002 at 04:09 PM |
That explains everything...IM A BULL SHARK!!! hee hee
I think the only other logical explenation of humans if we did not evolve
from apes, is that earth was a prison from Convict aliens, and we are the
product of the warped civilization....that would explain alot. :lol: ____________________
"Roses are Red, Violets are Blue. I'm a schizophrenic, and so am I".
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 2/10/2002 at 09:41 PM |
The "comes from monkeys" theory is actually not what it sounds like. Itīs
an oversimplified way of explaining why humans and apes are so similar, and
that we did indeed share a common ancestor. We didnīt evolve from apes,
because when homoerectus (which ALWAYS made our class giggle when we were
learning human evolution) first appeared there were no apes, just other
primates. ALL primates came from a similar ancestor...we just evolved
differently, and had different genetic aspects. We have more in common
with the "lesser apes" than not, but we didnīt evolve FROM them. They
evolved on their own as we did. Chimps are our closest ancestors, and
share a lot of the same traits, from their ability to make and use tools
(even something as simple as a stripped tree branch to fish out termites
from a log or hole) understand language to a certain degree, high thinking
capacity, and their tempers. Gorillas on the other hand share a lot of the
intellect but without the visciousness. Most of the agressive gorilla
behavior is mainly posturing. They rarely outright attack anything, and
are vegetarian. Theyīd rather scare something off than have an actual
conflict. Theyīre compassionate and caring and extremely intelligent.
I remember one news story of a little boy that fell over the edge of a
exhibit rail into a concrete moat that surrounded a gorilla habitat. He
was knocked unconscious and bleeding badly. A mother silver back gorilla
more that 10 times his side came to his aide. She picked the boy up and
held him, scaring off the more inquisitive and possibly agressive male
gorillas in the habitat as protectively as if she was his mother. She
rocked him when he started to scream and realised where he was. When zoo
keepers and paramedics arrived, she set him down and walked away. This
isnīt a tabloid report, this was on the television, with video tape. If
that boy had fallen into a chimpanzee exhibit, theyīd have probably killed
him. I wish more people were like gorillas...weīd only benifit.
I canīt believe that the universe was "created". The thought is
appealing...that weīre special. But the cynic and logician inside my head
keeps pointing out "right place right time". The complexities of molecules
and evolution just prove to me how very special and precious life is, how
complex, from grass to gorillas to pomegrannets.
The beginnings of life on this planet and others, our progress (if you can
call it that) and the many frighteningly diverse plants and animals, and
their mysteries wouldnīt be as mysterious and wonderful to me if I knew
where and when it all began. I want it to be mysterious, wonderful,
unknown...because once itīs been labeled, catalogued, assigned a number in
a scientific text then itīs no longer fantastic. God, aliens, or chemical
reaction...weīll know when weīre ready to accept. ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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IamSquid
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 658 Registered: 27/5/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 2/10/2002 at 11:13 PM |
As an animal I would have to say that humans are much more "savage" if
thatīs the word weīre using than animals. When an animal kills itīs
because thatīs itīs natural inclination, when a human kills itīs more often
than not against itīs natual inclination.
All of nature is a self-contained sytem that balances itself out, humans on
the other hand just fuck everything-up. The worst part about it is the
egotistical mindset of the human "Iīm better than animals because Iīm a
human," is virtually the same premise as white supremacy.
Humans tend not to understand that they are animals and part of nature as
well so they pretend the rules donīt apply to them just as klansmen or
whoever think they can kill-off the other races because the rules of the
Bible donīt apply to non-aryans.
Itīs one thing to kill something because itīs attacking yoo, itīs anothing
thing to kill uncountable masses of life because yor to lazy to properly
dispose of the waste yoo created for the sake of convience. Sure, Iīll go
and eat a doen people, but I wonīt dump oil all over their homes. ____________________
i wanted to die, and then it progressed into wanting everyone else to
die so i could watch, and then me die.
-ickgirl
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DarkTigress
Member Posts: 104 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 3/10/2002 at 03:48 AM |
Bettie_x, to reply to your message where you say "Our advantage and our
success is due to more reasons than savagery...our intelligence played the
most important role."
What is our advantage and success though? Killing off the planet?
Over-populating it? Starting wars? Killing people cause of simple things
like prejudice? Intelligence is such a huge concept truly... I donīt think
that all I counted is intelligence. Rather stupidity.
And also, I do believe animals have languages in their own aspect.
Oh, and I just remembered when you all said different species that are
viscious... itīs quite fun to see that no one said dolphins. I have noticed
that not many people know their are extremly viscious and human like that
way. New scientific studies shows that dolphins kill for fun, and also that
young male dolphins use to pair up in youth gangs, and then they use to
seperate females from the rest of the group and all rape her. Thatīs quite
interesting... the animal humans often say is the most intelligent after
humans act like that.
What made us and dolphins so viscious? Is it the mix of what we call
intelligence with instict? The intelligence to plan and perform actions
cause of emotions and instict? *shrugs* Thatīs why I ask you all these
psycadelic questions, I wanna see what you think of that.
And I think you misunderstood my latest question about humans and apes and
such. I never really questioned the darwin-theory... all I wondered was if
itīs possible that there excists other forms of human-like races today,
since we evolve more and more. Could it be that the "hollywood-vampire", or
mothman, and such, truly excist as a evolvation of the human race?
Me and my freaky questions :-D ____________________
~The World Can Continue It's Excistence Without Mankind... But What
Happens
To The Mankind When The Earth Is Gone?~
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AloneSoul
Fanatic  Posts: 522 Registered: 6/7/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 3/10/2002 at 10:13 AM |
Itīs about time I popped into this thread.
Humans are the most savage race on the planet, we are part of the animal
kingdom but to say no other animal species out there purpously acts on its
bloodlust and other primal urges are off by alot. If any other animal had
evolved like the ape did into the human, then they may be in the same
predicament we are.
Also note that many men with power are destroying this planet, however,
many other men are trying to save it. (at the rate weīre going, itīs not
bloody likely) Itīs like a few bad apples ruin the bunch...in this case,
nearly ALL of them are bad apples from time to time. ____________________
 but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living
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DevilBunny
Member  Posts: 178 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 3/10/2002 at 11:54 AM |
Iīm going to agree with Squid here.
Humans (at least most of them do) consider themselves better from animals
because of the so-called "free-will" and consciousness of life and such.
But then again thatīs what makes them (humans) worst.
Tigress - give scienteist a little more time and youīll have even more then
the bloody mothman...
like that mouse with a human ear growing out of itīs back - thatīs just
fucking nasty. :evil: ____________________
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Comedian
Fanatic Posts: 213 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 3/10/2002 at 01:36 PM |
| Man-- the greatest sport of all. An enemy who thinks, panics, and can beg
for life. An animal out to fuck you just as badly as you plan to fuck it. ____________________
Make way for the bad guy!
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 3/10/2002 at 08:24 PM |
Dark T
I did forget dolphins. I thought about putting them in with the others,
then couldnīt remember if they were on the "kills for jollies" list or not.
Iīd rather omit certain species than add them in and look like I"m pulling
things out of my ass *snicker*
As for our "success" I donīt mean that weīre some wonderful fabulous
species...weīre just successful at SURVIVING...as in ice ages, catastrophic
climate changes, predators in our migratory stick whacking stage,
finding/creating food and shelter in areas where other animals cant. We
started out as miniature semi-bipedal primates with little more than enough
intelligence to hump, eat, bicker, and migrate when it got nipply out. I
donīt fall totally on the dismal outlook of the human condition. Iīm
disgusted by most of us, Iīm angered by most of us, and our situation is
largely hopeless due to most of us. Weīre pissing away our planet and
natural resouces, weīre polluting the ones we havenīt already consumed, and
weīre wiping species off the face of the earth left and right. But then
there is the other half that tries to do the right thing for others and for
the enviroment, there are the others that are looking for ways to halt our
ecological destruction before we irradiate ourselves into oblivian...that
strive to protect the already endangered species and attempt to keep the
ones on the borderline off the list all together. There are those that
create beautiful art throughout the centuries, architecture, sculpture,
that strive to understand our world and how it works, there are a lot of
good things about humanity which are often overshadowed by the
bad...because tho the good is great the bad is worse.
We have been successful if you count our numbers, our proclivity, and our
"advancements". Weīve done pretty damned good on the "breed and spread"
aspect of animal survival...but weīre no longer a part of nature...weīve
put ourselves OUTSIDE nature, not above it. We can cure diseases that
would have kept our numbers in check. We can heal disorders that would
have kept our numbers in checks. We no longer have any natural predators
except each other. Perhaps the seemingly abundance in violence towards
each other in our species is a sort of mother nature time bomb...a catch 22
in the fine print we didnīt read when we signed the deal. Perhaps the
loathable psychopaths and murderers in our society is the ONLY way to keep
us from overpopulating into oblivion. Perhaps in some inexcusable way,
theyīre doing us a favor.
I donīt want people to die, and Iīm not some demon bioethicist that wishes
for "delegated killing" of the weak and infirm and the "useless"...but we
canīt all live forever. Iīll fight tooth and nail to my own end...but what
will be will be. I just have a better chance now than I did even 50 years
ago. ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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DarkTigress
Member Posts: 104 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 4/10/2002 at 01:16 PM |
DevilBunny, yea... or animal testing. I understand that some of it is
necessary... h3ll, if they didnīt test things on animals neither me or my
mom would be alive today. But unnecessary stuff, like taking dogs and make
them breath in cigarett smoke all day to see what it does to them... that
study they have done for 50 years, and they already found out the result
long, long ago. Still they do it, among lots of other things that I donīt
really wanna get into.
Comedian, interesting way to see it, indeed.
Bettie_x, I agree with you. Humans are very fascinating and a beautiful
being if you look at our way of surviving, and all things like love,
caring, art, and all positive things... itīs just too bad that the negative
sides are so bad that they hardly weigh up against the positive. Everything
in nature needs balance to work proparly.
Oh, and I donīt mean by any means that I think humans should die by this
topic... yes, maybe it would be the best thing for the world, but then
again... if I put myself in the position that if people have to die, and I
or any I know had to be one of them, Iīd hate the idea. Iīd fight for
survival of me and my loved ones and those I know ītil my last breath as
well. No one deserves to die.
But thereīs also an interesting aspect... all animals that have
over-populated the earth, have in some way decreased... either thrue
illness, some other specie that hunt them, nature disaster or such... will
nature find out some way to do that to us? Illnesses we can cure, sure
maybe not AIDS and all forms of cancer, but I think weīre getting there.
Nature disaster we can escape by fore-telling them and going to shelters.
Another specie, well, we can win easily over any specie with our weapons
and such. What other way can we be decreased? ____________________
~The World Can Continue It's Excistence Without Mankind... But What
Happens
To The Mankind When The Earth Is Gone?~
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 5/10/2002 at 09:48 PM |
We will be depopulated by our ignorance of nature and the
creative/destructive powers of it. Read "the coming global superstorm" by
art bell and whitley streiber.
For every rise of a great species, there is an equal or greater fall. We
canīt last forever. Nature ALWAYS finds a way. ALWAYS.
I dontī agree with animal testing. It proves little. If they had tested
the polio vaccine on sheep, they would have counted it as a failure and
there might not be a cure today. A lot of the tests they run on animals
are flawed, as animal biology is so different from human biology that itīs
ridiculous to think that itīd be of any use. If youīre sick, as a human,
would you go to a vet? If you animal is sick, do you take them to a human
hospital?
My main gripe is vivisection...performing cruel experiments and procedures
on live and conscious animals. Go rent a tape on vivisection. I fail to
see what bashing a rabbit on the head with a hammer is going to do for the
betterment of society.
What illness did animal testing save your mother and you from? Curiosity,
not being a snot. ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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Anonymous
Posts: 116 Registered: 14/4/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 6/10/2002 at 03:49 AM |
My mother, cancer. Me, astma attacks.
I hate animal testing, except for as I said, what may be necessary. I even
write in the biggest magazine for animals rights in Sweden and scandinavia.
Itīs easy to say all animal testing is not right, ītil you get into the
situation of needing medication that they have tested on animals. ____________________
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