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Author: Subject: Goths and Drugs

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 897
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 24/5/2002 at 04:47 AM
Hooray for Bettie and her vitriol!!!

Actually, considering he started right out with a condescending statement on how AMUSING it was to see people defend pot legalization, it was pretty evident right from the start how closed his mind was to any other input.

Comedian, do you see ANYONE standing up for you? Could it possible be that you are the one example of intelligent thought on this entire website? Might it be that no one stands up for you, even though there may be people who agree with your opinion on pot, because no one can stand your childish tantrums?

Anyone? Anyone? Anyone want to put in their two cents worth and say that Comedian is really being reasonable and adult and open minded?

I donīt know. Maybe weīre all just too dumb. Poor Comedian, the one lonely genius in the midst of a sea of slobbering idiots. If we were all half as smart as Comedian, we would immediately elect him as world leader, and allow him to make all our decisions for us, because he knows best.

Oh wise Comedian, tell me how many hours it is legal to sleep! How many calories and how many grams of fat it is legal to consume! Tell me how many pounds I may lift, under your new protective laws. When and where I may go barefoot. How many layers of clothing to wear on a chilly day. Please tell me, because I am far too stupid to be capable of navigating myself through lifeīs dangers.

Devin, I move that we elect Comedian to the holy office of Master of Merriment! He really is providing too much amusement for the masses to be confined outside the pantheon!

Wait - Comedian - too much amusement! Too much amusement! Laughing too hard may be hazardous to your health! I may have a brain aneurism! Quick, pass a protective law against too much amusement, because our simple minds donīt know when weīve had enough!

:grin: :-D :-P :razz:

 

____________________
"You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 856
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 24/5/2002 at 04:50 AM
Iīd throw in two cents for Comedian...I really would, except I seem to have spent all my money on my drugs...if drugs were legalized, maybe Iīd have those same two cents to spare...well prolly not. And Iīd just use them to by chiclets anyway...

 

____________________
In the valley of the Goats, the Goat Fucker is King

 

Member




Posts: 99
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 24/5/2002 at 09:00 AM
Well, I dont think I can take EITHER side in this issue, but I can say this.

I have only read two sides represented on this forum. "Keep things the way they are" or "have joints at the mini marts."

While I do not advocate for readily-available packs of joints at smoke shops or your local Pack-N-Save, I think that DEcriminalization of drug USE is a good idea. Injesting a harmful substance into your own body shouldnīt be something you serve jail time for; however, I do not think that we have a RIGHT TO availability of such substances. Furthermore, I do not think that the government is shafting you by attempting to control/criminalize the trafficing of said substances.

Here, I havenīt heard many valid points about why pot should be legal and readily available, except that "you donīt want big brother in your back pocket." I think I can safely say that many of us feel that way about a LOT of things.

on another note:

Iīd like to also point out that just because only one person seems to be dissenting, does not, in fact, make the others "right." In fact, historically thatīs often not been the case.

 

____________________

 

Fanatic




Posts: 376
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 24/5/2002 at 10:24 AM
::Nods, grins and cheers::

Why is it that people who think *they* should make all the rules are seldom fit to do so?

Psyche

 

____________________
Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 897
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 24/5/2002 at 10:43 AM
You know, Ickgirl, thatīs ok with me. I donīt need to have everyone agree with me. If all Comedian had done was disagree, everything would have been ducky, and we could have had a nice discussion, and maybe learned a thing or two from each other.

I know there are flaws in my theories. I donīt know everything. I donīt understand everything. There are valid reasons for keeping pot illegal, Iīm sure. But I donīt agree with the particular reasons that Comedian projected.

And, of course, the moment he starts taking a know-it-all attitude, or thinking that insults have any place in a debate, or jumping to conclusions about people he really doesnīt know anything about, then I consider I have a right to consider the debate over and the fight begun.

Anyone with any opposing opinion to my theories who wants to project said opinion with dignity and an open mind is free and welcome to do so. I will consider your words closely, and see what I can learn from them.

Anyone who wants to pander in insults or an Iīm-right-youīre-stupid attitude will receive no mercy from me.

By the way, I donīt exactly advocate selling pot at the mini-mart, but if pot is legalized, itīs fairly likely to happen, and there are some positive things attatched to the notion, like I mentioned, quality control and filters.

Personally, I think government should keep itīs sticky fingers out of a lot of other things, not just pot. America has had the tendency for quite some time to say "hereīs a problem. Itīs the governmentīs job to fix it." Government has become the big babysitter, and I donīt think thatīs healthy. As a consequence, the American government has aquired the notion that thereīs nothing that it isnīt justified in meddling with.

I believe there are a few specific duties of healthy federal government. Such as protecting the citizen from harm by other citizens. This ranges from speed limits to the arrest of rapists and murderers. Also the maintenance of public property (such as roads) and resources (such as our air supply). There are other duties, Iīm sure. Iīll have to think about this in more depth.

But I firmly believe that it is not the duty or right of the government to place restrictions on the individual if the thing restricted is not affecting the life, liberty, or pursuit of happiness of another individual. Yes, there may be laws about where you can smoke, to protect non-smokers from the dangers of carcinogens in their air, but any government activity determining whether you are allowed to inhale tobacco smoke by yourself in your own home is, I believe, unconstitutional.

You may think the illegal status of marijuana is a little thing. It is. But, like cancer, little things can grow. A little foot in the door can make it possible for the entire body to enter. Government has its foot in the door of restricting personal freedoms. And I would like to see that foot removed and the door firmly shut and locked. Pot is one issue that Iīve thought about lately. There are many others. All of them need to be dealt with.

Oh, one more thing. I believe in my last post, I meant to express that those who agreed with Comedianīs opinion on pot legalization were perhaps distancing themselves because they did not agree with his methods of promoting that opinion. I am sure he is not alone in his position. I donīt believe I am right because Comedian is the only one expressing his disagreement. I believe I am right because A. I have thought it through, and B. no one has yet projected anything that I can see as a sound reason for abandoning my position.

Your opinion, Ickgirl, is one that I value very highly. When you speak, I listen, and respect even where I donīt agree. You present your thoughts with intelligence and respect for the person you are talking to, and I feel that you, as well as I, are open to the possibility of being mistaken. But since that is not the case with Comedian, I reserve the right to not respect him or his reasoning.

 

____________________
"You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of
girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 759
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 24/5/2002 at 12:25 PM
i find this whole thread funny. after all drinking milk is practically mandated even tho there is NO evidence that the calcium is actually digestable and all the evidence that it kills people and does awful things to thier brains and bodies. and cocaine has been illegal for almost 100 years (without a prescription at least) when all it does is make people edgy and doles out the occational heart attack.
you can buy caffine anywhere anytime dispite the dangers that it poses, especially to the young. heck that is what we give kids for a treat for being good! you can buy cigs and booze at every corner shop, and candy on grade school campuses, despite what we know about refined sugar, booze, and cancer sticks.
There is a reason that people take "drugs" of any kind. caffine is homeopathic, if you cant sleep, over do it on caffine. have a headache? take some caffine. need to sit still but stay awake and talk alot? take caffine.
Having a lose of appitite? drink a small about of beer? have sore muscles? have a shot of something. have a cold and achy muscles? have a shot.
Are you on chemo treatments? smoke a bowl. Had a particularly bad period? smoke a bowl. serious PMS? smoke a bowl.
Suffering from temperary depression? do a line?
having chronic pain? have some opium (or a deriviative like they give you in hospital)
too broke for the good stuff? buy the generic: crank, crystal, ludes, etc...
if you are the sort to abuse a substance, it doesnt matter what it is, how illegal it is, or how hard it is to get, you will still abuse it. if you are the sort that knows how to use cold medicine and take all your pills when you have a perscription, then you will use these medicines the same way.
doesnt matter what the laws are. doesnt matter what the rules are. it matters how you choose to live you life and what you choose to do with it.
or so says me the chain smoker....

 

____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires away.

 

Member




Posts: 115
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 24/5/2002 at 02:01 PM
I..uh..agree..um...where was I? Oh yeah...I think drugs...are...um...::pretty colors!:: oh yeah...wait...no...um.....

Hereīs irony for ya: in my more nihilistic days, I used to drink about a 12 pack on a slow night, and considerably more on the weekends... I used to blame myself for my momīs death and felt like shit and did not fucking care if I died or not.
Then I discovered drugs and realized what I was doing to myself, and how stupid I was being, so I quit drinking fro awhile. Now, I drink occasionally (as in only a few times a year), donīt do drugs very often, and enjoy the hell out of life. Did drugs turn me around? NO, I did. Did "hard" drugs help me realize what I was doing? Maybe a little, but deep down it was my decision to stop fucking myself up so much (although I still smoke cigs, damnit!) and get over it. Whatīs my point? I donīt know, but Iīll be damned if some stoopid pig-fucker politician who probably has a problem him/herself is going to tell me what to do or not to do. Do I care if someone is dumb enough to stick shit in their bodies, legal or not? Not really. I say do what thou wilt, etc. as long as you donīt try to fuck over me or mine, cause I will hunt you down and slowly ki...uh..Iīm rambling again arenīt I?

Donīt do drugs - theyīre BAD, and if you donīt do them it keeps the price down for me....

 

____________________

 

Coward




Posts: 1
Registered: 14/5/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 24/5/2002 at 02:59 PM
Goths and drugs donīt mix. [period] if you are goth you donīt conform. You donīt smoke anything, you donīt take anything, you arenīt supposed to fall into the stream. Sorry if u donīt agree, but thatīs my personal opinion.

 

____________________
you're special (just like everybody else) God loves all of us and has blessed us all with many unique talents. i just wish he made compassion and understanding more abundant.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 759
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 24/5/2002 at 05:23 PM
any body else twisting over the irony in that "goths dont conform" thingy?
I laughed so hard i dropped my cigarette in my lap.

 

____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1570
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 24/5/2002 at 10:13 PM
I find it as equally ridiculous.
I donīt need to be the absolute truth...I came here for conversation, debate, not what it became.
I always respect other peopleīs opinions...ALWAYS...but as schitz said, not when their "opinion" is that they can insult, condescend, and piss their way to the "winnerīs circle".
There is no one winner in a real debate. Both benifit. I took in ALL opinions and thoughts on the subject with respect...and I will always continue to do so. But I am not going to take someone acting like an asshole towards me and others simply because they donīt agree with their opinion.
I can think of several reasons pot should remain illegal...I listed them in one of my first responses...coincidentally they have all the effects of cigarettes and alcohol. So my question remains, why? OTHER than not wanting big brother in my back pocket.
I agree with you, ick, and you schitz, and you calliel and pretty much with anyone who has a valid statement for or against. I know what pros and cons are...Iīve weighed them, and my scales tipped in a direction different from others. My opinions often dip differently than others...itīs the way I am. But some of my best friends for YEARS have TOTALLY opposite views, yet weīre close as close can be. Why? RESPECT. RESPECT of each otherīs views. UNDERSTANDING.
And callei, as much as I would love to delve into the venom death of prolonged milk addiction, Iīve been there and got screamed at about how nothing in the real world works like it does in my retarded "vegan utopia" (direct quote from our patron saint of wet undies) simply because HE has a soy allergy. I didnīt get a "I feel differently from you, as I have a soy allergy and it wreaks hell on my body" I got called a bitch, brainless, and for a moment the worldīs axis heaved around one poor soul who one time accidentally ate soy and about bled to death in a tub or something. Because of his soy allergy, my opinions on the murder and abuse of animals was null and void.
I"ve most certainly said all I care to on this subject, and wasted too much time, too much energy. I donīt feel like I should be a queen, I donīt feel like I should have to be a bitch, I just feel my opinion, like all others expressed in every inch of this website, should be heard and respected for whatever they are, like everyone elseīs. A heated debate once and a while would be nice without the devolution to childishness.
Iīm cutting out to eat my cruelty free vegan dinner, topped by a cigarette and a nice glass of wine...or three.

 

____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 897
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 25/5/2002 at 06:21 AM
Yes Callei, that "goths donīt conform" bit was sweet!

We really should round up all the people who have posted comments like that on this site, and throw them a party! Wouldnīt life be boring without people of that caliber of unintentional irony!

Thankyou, Lost Angel, thankyou, thankyou!

:lol: :-P

 

____________________
"You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the />
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest
of

girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 759
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 25/5/2002 at 06:29 AM
sorry bettie, i could have said farm meat there too, i was just thinking "drinkable things" and i am sure you will agree that a hamburger shake isnt something that springs to mind. Ok it may spring to mind but its also way to gross to talk about before breakfast.

 

____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires />
away.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1570
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 25/5/2002 at 11:44 PM
Gross, yeah, but even if it sounded gross but tasted great, peopleīd drink dead things blended if it suited their pallet..even if they were blended while still semi conscious...
Hell, I donīt tell people they are bad if they eat meat....Sure, I wish veganism wasnīt such an exclusive club, and I do feel that lack of education on where meat and animal products come from and what the animals go through to produce these common objects that no longer resemble themselves are contributing factors...a lot of people, if they had to raise and kill their own meat wouldntī eat it. I donīt like people eating animal products, but that doesnīt mean that I donīt like people that DO eat animal products...I just donīt like that aspect of them. Such as people may not like smoking, but donīt hate smokers....just that aspect of them. What gets me angry, is people that boo and coo the poor souls with an allergy to peanuts and soy or msg or whatever when they accidentally eat it, but when I get sick because Iīve gotten an accidental mouth of cheese before I knew it was there, itīs like so what? Deal with it,wierdo. Pick it out, they say. Well, I have a reaction to meat and dairy just as severe...Iīve gotten sick from a wayward burrito with a request for the cheese to be left out, and didnīt realize it was LOADED until after the first swallow or two. And got sick.
Anyway, we digress....
yes, goths donīt confrom...I did get a kick out of that. Is that a rule? Isnīt that conforming? Ugh...it always comes back to this, doesnīt it?

 

____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 759
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 26/5/2002 at 10:57 AM
yah know, i think that post could be another "topic" or ten. how about goths dont conform just to conform. does that get us out of that arguement?

 

____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and
vampires
/>

away.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1570
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 26/5/2002 at 03:43 PM
Ooo you may be on to something there....but like it hasnīt been done over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over?
*head spins and falls off*
man, I gotta stop that....
I just wish people would treat it like they treat "god"...itīs there, itīs intangible, itīs omnipresent, works in mysterious ways, and canīt be explained by the mere words of men.
Good thing Iīm not religious.
Hail to black underwear , hair extensions, and bauhaus.
Viva la morte.

...and all that jazz

 

____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.

 

Coward




Posts: 1
Registered: 2/10/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 2/10/2003 at 03:24 AM
Psychopixie
I'm 20 and I've been taking hallucinogens, specifically acid and mushrooms, fairly consistently for over six years. And while I can not with a straight face say that the drugs have not changed me, I can say that the changes I have experienced have been predominantly positive. I've learned much about myself and have gained much understanding of others through such activities. But I have also been privvy to the pain and misery of others who chose the same path I did and wound up in a place they never wanted to be and will probably never leave. Their passion faded, and their zeal no longer even a memory. They have reduced themselves to a level of death without knowing that their dead. Now granted, not everyone I've tripped with has ended up as useless waste but it would seem that with all the people I have tripped with forty percent ended up waste, forty percent ended up no worse for wear, and only about twenty percent actually showed signs of personal growth. when I say the path I chose what I mean is at it's most intense I was tripping at least 3 times a week and my personal rule was never less than 6 hits a trip, that lasted most of my seventeenth year. Since my eighteenth year my zealousness for my poison of choice has mellowed considerably mostly due to the rather large bust that happened a while back in san francisco. My point is that the things I've done and the amount of drugs I've taken to learn what I now know has shown me that I was a FLUKE. It was pure luck that kept me from being institutionalized or the guy who asks the people reading this for change as they walk by on their way to the club. I do not think that it is an epidemic nor even a crisis that the goth culture has a certain notoriety for decadence and debauchery, in each subculture there would seem to be a particular trademark poison they identify with. I do think that not enough people have the self-discipline or the will power to walk that razor-thin line between a dabbler and an addict especially with the harder drugs. I didn't for a long time which is why I can say that luck is why I'm here, well luck and cigarettes.
So to answer your query in a roundabout way I think that drugs are a tough bitch but if you can walk away with your eyes a little wider and your mind little confused then you're probably making a choice that is beneficial to your life.

 

Fanatic




Posts: 376
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 2/10/2003 at 11:16 AM
Right these are my experiences with drugs:- I used to be really good friends with these guys, nice people - really friendly. When I met them I didn't smoke, didn't drink. Started hanging round with them, and started drinking. I was fifteen. It seemed like fun - get served for some beer, some vodka, some alcopops and get smashed on the weekend. I started dating one of the guys, and started smoking as well. I was sixteen. The other people were smoking pot regularly so I tried it, liked it. I'd meet up with them on the weekends, and week nights and go to Dave King's house and get stoned off my arse. Fun. Then my exams came up and I didn't go out to meet them cause I had to revise. They laughed at that, cause hell - they didn't need to revise! After my exams I started making friends with other people, and hung around with them less. I was seventeen.

Now Dave King is a pretty big dealer and the other guys will drop pills, or do a few lines when they're bored. I don't drink anymore, I still smoke though, I know it's bad for me, but hell I like it. I take shrooms, and I smoke pot, but I'd never consider doing any Class A drugs. I know I'd like them, I'd end up spending all my cash on them and turning into something like Dave King - he looks like shit, can't talk properly - he stutters like hell, he's nervy, he's not a nice person to be around. I'm happy the way I am, living on nicotine and caffiene, with an occasional joint. At least I have friends, and not people I sell to!

Just an observation: Where I live it seems very noticeable that the 'trendies' will drink, the alternative kinds will smoke (cigarettes and pot) and the mini metaller kids will fuck themselves over on anything they find.

 

____________________
Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life.

 

Occasional Poster




Posts: 21
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 22/10/2003 at 09:05 PM
I dont think legalizing marijuana has to be either 'none allowed ever' or sold freely in the corner stores. In Canada our government is trying to pass a bill for decriminalization as oposed to legalization, so its not legal to have large amounts (trafficking) but noone can go to jail for having a few joints in their pocket. I think compromise in this situation is perfect, because you are never going to make everyone happy. The best we can do is get the best of both worlds - stop wasting time and money putting people in jail for small possession, while still having the right to bust big drug dealers who are selling drugs to our kids. And on the topic of drugs in the goth subculture, I dont think it's different from any other group of people. Some do, some dont. The ones that do partake in mind expanding substances (myself included) may be making a different decsion than you, but that doesnt make us stupid. Anyone who knows what they are putting into their body and does so in an informed and responsible way, in my opinion, is not doing anythign wrong.

 

____________________

 

Fanatic




Posts: 246
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 16/1/2004 at 10:41 AM
:snickers; THis prooves how fucked up missouri is... Down the road about a mile or so, a methlab blew up... Now, hearing about it. My dad, My dad's friend terri, me and my boyfriend, decided to go drive by and check out how big the explosion was....

 

____________________
When the world is over, will we wonder how it began?

 

Fanatic




Posts: 355
Registered: 5/8/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 6/8/2004 at 03:20 PM
does anyone think that there are 'apropriate' gothic drugs? it amuses me to think that goths should only take drugs that are true to the spirit of their gothic beleifs. i dont want to go into WIG, but IF for example someone beleived that gothicness revolved around looking at the world in a vaguely different way should they really only take mushrooms if being true to themselves? how about punk goths. should they only take speed? goth can be a way of life and do people thnk that this extends to their drug use at all?
i personally like the idea, as i said.
i like getting trashed on anything i can find or afford. thats my experience.
i would like to see drugs legalised just for my own ease of aquisition, but looking at it rationally: marijuana may as well be legal, anyone who wants it can get it. simple fact, i can look out of my window right now and call across the road to the peopl who just moved in and probably get a toke. it would change nothing in the lives of those who would be the ones buying anyway. if the drug barons went out of business then maybe they would find a new source. gunrunning perhaps? hired killing? oh. it appears that many do anyway. if they have the determination then their business will continue. maybe a little less profitably, but the world of those around them will not come crashing down. the 'sandpaper jello' will still be consumed. look at cigarettes, it will be just like that. there will be health campaigns and such which may or may not detract potential users. its all just swings and roundabouts really. on behalf of comedian, he does seem to have thought through some of those points. against him. well youve all said it.

 

____________________
Eritis sicut Deus scientes bonum et malum.

And the third angel sounded, and a troll army did descend upon the world.

 
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