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Psychopixi
Fanatic   Posts: 376 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 16/5/2002 at 03:18 PM |
I realise this topic was semi-brought up in the goths and poseurs thread,
but it turned into a īwhat is gothī thread so I thought Iīd post this.
I just wanted to know what peoples opinions are, in general, on drug use in
the gothic subculture. Donīt get me wrong, Iīm not an addict and Iīve never
used hard drugs but itīs not been unheard of for me to get drunk /
stoned.
I hope this doesnīt turn into another īWIGī thread, I just want to know
peoples opinions/viewpoints. So... any takers?
Psyche ____________________
Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life.
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic   Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 16/5/2002 at 05:06 PM |
I donīt think it has any more consequences/frequency within the confines of
the "culture". Though it would be stupid to think it doesnīt exist within
it, I donīt think it is any more serious or prolific than in any other
walks of life.
The average pot smoker is the middle class urban white male. That leaves
it WIDE open to possiblities.
I donīt have any problem with drugs. Iīve never even smoked pot in my LIFE
(and no, Iīm not lying) so I figure why start now. I donīt mind being
around pot smokers either when they are or are not engaging in the
activity, and I donīt see what the big deal is. Hard drugs I have a
problem with, but only because they are so physically and mentally and
emotionally devestating, tho I donīt feel the need for a big brother to
tell me what I can and cannot put into my body. If someone wants to
destroy their life, then let them. Doesnīt mean I like it, but my likes
and dislikes donīt govern the world...however others (being politicians so
far removed from the situation they shouldnīt be granted liscence to speak
FOR ME) DO.
I would feel horribly if my sister was a junkie...but it would be her life,
not mine. I hate the fact that our prisons are choked with pot dealers
while the rapists and child molesters and murderers and scum get off early
to make room for the latest captives in the "war on drugs".
Donīt they realize that if they legalized even just marijuana, that yes,
people would go apeshit over it for a while, but after a while, there are
no more pot dealers because you can get it at the corner market for the
price of a pack of smokes. It would take the power away from the criminals
by decriminalizing it. Decriminalizing it would take away the appeal of
doing something naughty, make it less daring and sexy and kill the thrill
for would be pot smokers who do it to be cool. Jails wouldnīt be clogged
with wanna be pot hustlers, so the REAL bastards of society can spend their
WHOLE sentence where they belong. The drugs, passed through the FDA would
be clean...no lacing with pcp or clorox or ajax, or crack...hence making
them less dangerous. Filters like on cigarettes cut the risks when
manufactured as such.
Yeah, itīs a mind altering drug...so is alcohol, and america LOVES
alcohol...but pot and cigs are the DEVIL I tell you...
The real devils are those who sit on high and pretend they remember what
itīs like to be human in the real world...our darling big brothers and
sisters, so benevolent and WISE while they bang their secretaries and pay
each other off for favors or silence so their untarnished godlike gleam
shows no stain of their true human nature.
Everyone take a hit and remember what itīs like to be a sentient skinbag
like the rest of us. Then maybe we can boss their shit around for a while
and let them remember what it feels like. ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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Comedian
Fanatic  Posts: 213 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 16/5/2002 at 08:58 PM |
Cocaine Lab -- Empty Bathtub, wax paper pack
Marijuana Plant -- Greenhouse, climate control system and moisturizer
Mathamphetamine Production Facility -- Empty bathtub, steel drum, local
pharmacy ____________________
Make way for the bad guy!
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necromancer
Occasional Poster   Posts: 48 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 17/5/2002 at 12:19 AM |
As with all social groups, some people choose to use drugs and others
donīt. The fact that anyone would choose to abuse drugs is nothing short
of stupidity.
I agree with you, bettie_x on legalization of marijuana. We definitely
need to create room in prisons for the "real" criminals. I donīt see
marijuana as being any more dangerous than alcohol. -And why try to
control what people put in their bodyīs anyway. Isnīt it a personal
choice? The harder drugs, yes theyīre dangerous, not just to the user, but
possibly to everyone around them.
Iīve never claimed to be intelligent and will admit that I have smoked pot
a few times. I donīt drink anymore, but occasionally I might indulge in
acid, purely for spiritual purposes. :-D ____________________
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Schizo
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 897 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 17/5/2002 at 05:08 AM |
I agree pretty much completely with Bettie. Though this website is just
about the limit of my immersion in the social aspects of Goth, it seems to
me quite silly to target goths as drug users. Drug use is an issue in just
about any culture, sub or not. (Except maybe the wacko religious one I
grew up in.)
And I also agree that itīs a horrible thing that the government thinks that
they know so much, that they can tell me "donīt do that, itīs baaaaad for
you!" Well, there are a lot of things that are potentially bad for me.
Including overeating. Whatīs next? The government watching my caloric
intake? Taking away that chocolate chip cookie because Iīm over my legal
limit, and making me eat celery sticks instead? All the government should
concern itself with is making sure that people donīt go around harming
other people. Someone who wants to be self-destructive will always find a
way, legal or illegal, to do so.
Iīve smoked pot, on occasion. I admit it. (I never buy it, just bum a few
hits off of friends! :-P ) I enjoy the feeling, but I prefer being
straight most of the time. Being high loses itīs fun if thatīs the way you
are all the time. As for harder drugs, Iīve never tried them. I wouldnīt
say Iīd never try, maybe, acid, just once, to see what that high is like.
I donīt know. Iīd want to be really careful with it, of course. You can
ruin your life pretty quickly messing around with drugs. I like to keep
even pot down to a strict minimum. (Of course, none at all, now, even if I
could get my hands on it, which I canīt.)
The tricky bit is going to be when my baby gets old enough to start
experimenting. What do I do if I catch him/her with a bowl in his/her
hands? Ground him, or sit down with her and share it? *sigh* itīs all so
complicated.
But back to the subject. I donīt think drugs are any more a problem among
goths than among any other group. But more important to remember is,
groups donīt make choices. People make choices. Joe Goth does drugs
because heīs Joe, not because heīs Goth. ____________________
"You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of
girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"
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Shade
Fanatic  Posts: 289 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 17/5/2002 at 03:55 PM |
Ah drugs, I could tell some stories. When I was a teenager and I only had
to worry about where my rent was coming from ($125 to $400 a month, I lived
with my someone who is now a long gone ex at the time) and which car I was
going to sleep under that night ( We werenīt getting along very well even
then) I did alot of drugs, I mixed and matched in a near suicidal attempt
to catapult my brain through my earlobes and into the stratosphere. But you
know what? I quit, I think for a large amount of the populous who have
indulged itīs the same to some degree. I donīt think itīs necessarily a
cultural thing, and to avoid this turning into a WIG thread I will say no
more than in general the highly intelligent either become the not so
intelligent or they get responsibilities and sober up (for the most part) I
still smoke tobacco like a chimney, and I drink occassionally, but itīs
been like two years since I went on a bender.
As far as the legalizing pot thing goes, I think it would still be grown in
backyards everywhere, partially just because itīs in the nature of the
beast. I swear pot engenders herbiculture, architecture, and heavy duty
sculpture. Long after I had quit smoking pot I was still into making pipes
that carried with them special effects. I probably scarred my larynx for
life testing the glowing eyes on a skull-pipe with ripped open cigarettes. ____________________
It is only through the lack of sex that humanity derives the need for an
all encompassing blind love. And in that moment of extreme horniness with
no relief in sight, in that moment can be found the birth of religion.
-Me
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Comedian
Fanatic Posts: 213 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 17/5/2002 at 04:17 PM |
Itīs still amusing to see people promoting the legalization of a
hallucinogenic en masse.
I canīt even begin to go in to reasons why it shouldnīt be legalized, Iīd
just like to point out here and now that even if you did legalize it,
people would find horrible ways to change it and modify it and get good and
fucked up on it and get in to just about as much trouble as you can
imagine. Why do people want to legalize it? To stop dealers? In the
words of Shirow Masmune, "promoting a consumerist lifestyle is committing
the ultimate violence against imporvershed nations"-- which is what that
does. Watch mexico really go to hell when even high class drug dealers
canīt call the shots. Watch cocaine prices drop low for competition, then
watch complete collapse in South America, India, Africa and the Philipines.
Also watch accessibility of the "harder" drugs increase ata staggering
rate, cause, hell, if hallucinogenics are legal, they canīt be that bad,
let me drop a couple acid and go take a ride in my car.
Look at long-term brain damage as well-- strong hallucinogens cause some of
the most hideous psychopathic breakdowns around.
Think good and fucking long and look at every fucking country when you
consider making any major change in America-- just cause every day we
commit horrible, horrible acts of violence against everyone else.
Amsterdamīs all fucking fun, but thatīs not 1.6 billion people who
contribute heavily to a world market of 6 billion. ____________________
Make way for the bad guy!
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 17/5/2002 at 07:26 PM |
Hm, alright, fair enough, but... Donīt they do that already?
Hell, people take cocaine laced cigarettes, dip them in formaldehyde,
"shermans" I believe theyīre called, because after smoking one or two itīd
take a sherman tank to take you down...People lace pot with pcp, cocaine,
xtc already. It wouldntī be anything new. As said before, itīs the nature
of the beast. Bigger, better, faster, stronger, higher, deadlier...after
all, death is the biggest high of all, no? Some people would tell you yes,
sadly.
Sure, there are several reasons I can think of why it shouldnīt be legal
(theoretically, mind you)...itīs addictive (cigarettes and alcohol), itīs
mind altering (alcohol), it can cause residual damage after a prolonged use
(cigarettes and alcohol) especially in adolescence when the brain is still
forming (alcohol) it can be destructive to your health (cigarettes and
alcohol) and to your family (alcohol), itīs a gateway drug (cigarettes and
alcohol), itīs an easy escape from problems and a "self treatment" for
depression (cigarettes and alcohol), can impair your driving (alcohol) and
ability to function (alcohol), could be illegally accessible to minors
(everything under the sun).
If keeping drugs illegal helps keep drug cartells and south american
economies strong, these same cartells and families that are rich on wrongs
while hard work goes unappreciated, that run guns and engage in mafia style
iron thumb rule on local poverty stricken people, so that some schmuck that
wants to take a toke now and then gets to go to prison so they wonīt go
broke when the drug is legalized is no longer so hard in demand and
inexpensive?
People here should go to prison for indulging in a wild growing plant that
has the same effects as alcohol (which is legal) because these nations
economies were built on the backs of illegal products? I am failing to see
how this is our fault..please elaborate as to how america would be
responsible for their own collapse, as they are the ones building their
monuments of sand.
People will try anything if theyīre stupid enough...kids can get their
hands more readily on deadlier substances than cigarettes and alcohol.
Anyone up for huffing some paint? Or maybe glue is your deal...or how
ībout we go buy some cetaphyll and stagger around the mall on cold
medication we bought at riteaid.
They can, do, and will.
The nature of the beast, kids, go look in the mirror.
Iīm not a cruel or uncaring person. I often am distressed over the
affairs, woes, and injustices in the world, and the people that get caught
in the way. With a planet as overpopulated as ours, no matter which
direction you take or turn, people will always be in the way. Itīs a fact
of global life, itīs the nature of the beast.
As far as amsterdam, yes, they arenīt a major contributor..but of our 1.6
bill people, are they all going to run out and toke up, eat twinkies, and
watch spongebob squarepants and let the world go to hell the minute the
green light (no pun intended) is given? I seriously doubt it...those who
donīt already, probably wonīt anyway legal or not...those who do, will
continue to do so regardless of legalities. Granted, some may give it a
whirl, a flirt, some may like it some may not, some may continue to smoke
it, some may be like "okay, Iīve done it, back to normal life"...just like
people do every day.
My whole point is that it is here..it always has been, it always will be,
and whatīs the point of putting in place restrictions you canīt even hope
to enforce en masse and plugging up jails with pot heads sucking up my tax
dollars versus the REAL shitheads that I"d pay cash myself to keep locked
up for life.
Iīm not saying that we should all engage in a "consumeristic lifestyle" and
ruin the world, Iīm just saying to HELL with it, quit playing pretend that
they have a handle on something that is no more dangerous than booze and
smokes, and that people can, will and DO get right under their noses.
perhaps a new forum is in order....hmm.
Thatīs all for now, end transmission... ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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Dolorosa
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 856 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 18/5/2002 at 04:02 AM |
Drugs? What are you guys talkinī about...drugs are bad...bad! bad! bad!
bad! bad!...whoah...colors.  ____________________
In the valley of the Goats, the Goat Fucker is King
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Schizo
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 897 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 18/5/2002 at 04:25 AM |
Once again (how does this keep happening?) I agree with Bettie!
Somehow I donīt think that the ruining of a few drug lords in Mexico is
going to hurt the ordinary Jose Schmo. In fact, it would probably help
spread the pesos around.
Just think. No longer is it necessary to build high-security operations
just to grow a little marijuana. No longer will you have to own boats and
planes with specially designed hiding places for your contraband. Men
wonīt be getting all shot up over it, which means there will be fewer
fatherless families trying desperately to survive without their main source
of income. Maybe Jose Schmo can start his own little weed farm. Make a
little extra money that would have all been holed up in the bank account of
someone who canīt even spend all they have. And doesnīt deserve to have it
anyway.
All in all, it means more money for Mexico, more money in circulation, and
more money in the pockets of the little guy.
What could be better for the economies of nations such as this than giving
them a market for a product theyīre just perfectly designed to produce?
Isnīt that one of the reasons theyīre classified as 3rd world? What chance
does the little guy have in these countries now to make a living?
As for everyone in America going stir-crazy and drugging themselves to the
hilt and dropping like flies from overdoses, Iīll say this. Those that can
handle drugs responsibly will continue to do so. Those that canīt are
already ruining their lives, either through illegal use, or through other
means. Just like cigarettes and alcohol.
You know, they tried to make alcohol illegal a while back, too. It was
called the prohibition. It caused so many problems they gave it up. Maybe
itīs time to do the same with our modern-day prohibition.
____________________
"You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest
of
girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"
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Comedian
Fanatic Posts: 213 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 18/5/2002 at 07:35 PM |
Jesu.
Madre di pinche dios.
Since itīs a pun thatīs a kick in the balls as far as real humour goes,
what the fuck have you been smoking? ____________________
Make way for the bad guy!
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 18/5/2002 at 09:12 PM |
You lost me darlinī...and Iīve been smoking nothing but legal and
overpriced cigarettes  Remember youīre talking to one of the only people (that *I* know
thatīs never laid a finger on "drugs", something simple as weed
included).
Donīt get all pissy or rude (like I said, you lost me in my sober haze), I
wasnīt attacking you. You put in place an argument, I countered. Isnīt
that how debate works?
Good thing Iīve not got balls to kick, or I might have to be offended. ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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Schizo
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 897 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 19/5/2002 at 06:18 AM |
Donīt worry about Comedian, Bettie. It seems heīs just young enough to
mistake cheap insults for logic in what is meant to be a reasonable debate.
You can ignore him, or you can bait him, depending on your mood, but you
wonīt get far arguing with him. Because of course, we must be all fucked
up on drugs to DARE disagree with the Almighty Comedian.
(Bring it on, boy, bring it on! Schizoīs waiting! :grin: ) ____________________
"You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and
the
/>
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest
of
girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"
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Comedian
Fanatic Posts: 213 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 19/5/2002 at 06:21 AM |
I mean, saying more money for Mexico.
Less money for mexico, no mafia involvement at all.
American crop farmers can support the world really; we burn 90% of our
crops just because we donīt need them. Mexico grows marijuana crops, and
when big tobacco takes over Marijuana manufacturing when it becomes legal,
nobody will farm anything in Mexico but cactus pulp for hard tequila. And
cocaine. and if everyone starts farming coca leaves, more people are going
to get shot to keep the price of cocaine high.
I canīt predict the future, but Iīll make a good guess that changing
something so big so drastically will cause a load of problems. ____________________
Make way for the bad guy!
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Schizo
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 897 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 19/5/2002 at 06:38 AM |
Well then, say what you mean Comedian. Donīt hide behind your insults. If
youīve got a valid argument, use it.
OK. I see your point. But I still say the present system supports ONLY
the drug lords in places like Mexico. Personally, I donīt care if those
bastards go down in flames. Not because they sell drugs, but because they
have no regard for human life. Maybe they support some sort of industry in
Mexico with their loads of cash, but I doubt it. Theyīre spending their
money on American goods, European goods, anything but on the support of
their own country. They are a cancer in 3rd world countries. And I would
love to see them go down. But they wonīt go down as long as drugs are
illegal in America. They will always have their big market there.
Maybe I was naive to say that Jose would make much money with his little
dinky pot farm. But I will say that heīs sure not being much benefited by
the local drug lordīs stash. Maybe heīll even end up living a little
longer if the big guy with the guns is taken out.
The war on drugs? Yeah right. Thatīs only feeding the problem. ____________________
"You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and
the
/>
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the
carefullest
/>
of
girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"
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Meranda_Jade
Fanatic  Posts: 511 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 19/5/2002 at 08:05 AM |
| What really sucks about the illegalization of marijuana, is that theyīve
extended it to commercial hemp products as well. I want my hempseed
granola!!! I want to be able to grow a field of hemp, and make my own
clothes and paper. I want to press those seeds for oil. But nooo... even if
youīre using the plant responsibly, itīs still illegal. dammit. ____________________
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Dolorosa
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 856 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 19/5/2002 at 08:21 AM |
I wannaī hemp field too...then I want to set it on fire. Woohooo!
To tell you the truth, I donīt think I can use anything responsibly. But
then again, drugs wouldnīt be so freaking fun if they were legal. ____________________
In the valley of the Goats, the Goat Fucker is King
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MorteAscendo
Member   Posts: 190 Registered: 6/5/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 19/5/2002 at 10:24 AM |
Well now..i "USED" drugs in the past for ages 16-19..and i have done the
more fun ones...Like weed for instance, i loved that shit i was never
"addicted" to it cause i quit cold turkey after 3 1/2 years of everyday
use...Shrooms and Acid where fun and i can honestly say that they arent
that bad, but there are people who just shouldīnt use them...i liked them
at the time but now i realize that it was a phase that i went through when
i was younger...and now that im alittle older and a tad wiser, i know that
i wont go back...well, ok mebbe when i get out of the Military ill smoke
bud again...but thats it...i SWEAR!!!! hee hee :-x but seriously...are
Shrooms and Acid considered "Hardecore" drugs??? i mean its not like that
are horribly addicting like Coke and H...i have never done those and never
will....and i know that THOSE are "Hardcore" drugs....but what really
classifies something as "Hardcore"? Shit..my parents are old hippies and i
know what they have done and they are both successfull people...givin they
never did Coke nor H...but they where hippies..come on! hee hee...but i see
people even in the Navy that are getting booted out because of Coke and
Shrooms (in Okinawa Shrooms where legal untill April 4th 2002) and it does
make me angry that these "Adults" cant grow up or get away from the
addiction....but i guess some people just dont have the common sence or
will power to decide that "Hey, maybe we SHOULDīNT do this". Iīve grown
up, why cant somepeople. That is the question that i dont get...how hard
is it to say "No"?
ps: im a shitty speller so bare with me. :grin: ____________________
"Roses are Red, Violets are Blue. I'm a schizophrenic, and so am I".
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Comedian
Fanatic Posts: 213 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 19/5/2002 at 08:18 PM |
You know why I cuss? Itīs because most people canīt fucking hear
themselves talk or contemplate the meaning of what they say, even though
the thing they love most is to hear their own voices.
Schizo, if you take away the drug lords, those places have jack shit.
Indonesia and Polynesia, and some of the more remote areas in Korea rely on
fields and fields of poppies guarded and helped to be farmed by the local
militias. Take away the Mexican drug lords and you have nobody who gives a
shit about Mexico remains. Take down the drug lords, and you take down
families who barely survive as it is, the fdamilies of drug runners and
thousands of people who rely on the trade to get anything done. And that
isnīt just marijuana, thatīs cocaine as well, and a Hispanic mafia "lay
off" is a quiet bullet in the back of the head when you sit down after
walking out of the manīs mansion.
Like I mentioned earlier, promoting a consumerist lifestyle is committing
the worst violent crimes against poorer nations. Itīs always that way when
the corporation takes over. ____________________
Make way for the bad guy!
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 19/5/2002 at 10:30 PM |
Oh jesus (pronounced heyzoos*wink*), here we go again.
Comedian, you make very valid, well thought out points. I can see your
side. Now itīs your turn to "fantasize" (okay, I canīt spell that word)
and see others. Itīs a trait of a well educated individual, and I know you
have it in you, Iīve seen it before.
Until you or I have lived in mexico, are impoverished, and for a length of
time lived in an area controlled by these mexican and south american drug
cartells, all we can do is theorise, sit and think and pretend we have the
answers for the woes of the world.
EVERYONE is a consumer...some to a greater extent than others, but we are
all consumers. The computer you and I are on, the clothes you and I are
wearing (even second hand clothes were the byproduct of SOMEONEīS
consumerism) the food we eat, the cars we drive and the gas that fuels
them, the movies we see and books we read. Itīs all consumerism. By
wanting to legalize the smoking of a plant that grows wild here (if they
left it alone) and EVERYWHERE, has TONS of uses and benifits via biproducts
(ink, paper, cloth, rope, food, etc) is not delving into the unfathomable
reaches of the evil consumerism than we already do. Iīm not thinking to
myself "he he he, Iīm gonna toke up and imagine javier and his six starving
children to whom I contribute my daily dose of misery via my evil liason
with mad consumerism"
No. Iīm thinking that the criminal label of smoking pot is retarded, a
waste of time and money, a pain in the ass, and is no different that
smoking and drinking at the same time.
Poor poor drug lords...bless their benevolence at building a false economy
that is libel to self destruct if america ever pulls itīs head out of itīs
ass and quit being so anal. Blame them for building a massive frail money
structure. They put bullets in plenty of heads. They built their sand
castles never expecting high tide. Mexico has PLENTY to offer....export
produce, that wonderful little agave plant that is responsible to tequila,
industry exports, and god forbid these people get a chance to earn their
living...earn a good living, and not rely on gun packing crime lords to
decide just how well off they get to be. Maybe theyīll get a good
president (one not selected and intimidated into office for the drug
runnerīs own benifit) one who can lift the country back up....Hell, america
was in one of the most dismal depressions, and we got back up on our feet.
Give those people a chance, instead of relying on a stupid law in an anal
retentive bordering country to keep them afloat.
I think before I speak, thank you. I think EVERYTHING I SAY over...I speak
of how I think, and how I feel, and on my convictions, not out my ass. I
donīt open my mouth unless I know what the hell Iīm talking about. You are
allowed to feel strongly and hold opinions about whatever you wish, just
like everyone else, tho just because they may have a different side of the
mirror you look in doesnīt make them stupid, ignorant, deaf, or wrong.
I hope you understand and an actual discussion can take place between us
ALL, not just a "yes huh" and "nuh huh" bantering. Itīs pointless and
childish. ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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