Sorrow
Occasional Poster Posts: 18 Registered: 21/11/2007 Status: Offline
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posted on 28/11/2007 at 01:16 AM |
...or something.
I'm of the mind that routine destroys a person's potential for wisdom and
intelligence, by oppressing the closed minded imperative. See, we do the
same shit every day, because by doing this same shit, we've established
some sort of sense of security and guidance when it comes to surviving in
society, most especially because this is what, precisely, is awaited of the
common man.
I can tell this by old people always saying the same stories over and over
again; such examples show that the person has to keep reminding themselves
that at some point or another in their life, they did or experienced
something worthwhile. they learned something form it, and try to keep it
alive by presenting it as some huge feat. Because other then this, routine
destroys everything. it like, stalls your mental or spiritual progress...or
some shit.
I thought I was miserable and suicidal when I didn't have a job and didn't
know what I was going to do about the rent or food; but every day was an
adventure, and I'm sure I've learned so much more shit form struggling like
a jackass then I have been for the past three years. I have a job now and
just do the same thing over and over again. Weekends are sought after for
whatever freedom I can extract from it, and recap the shit I like to do.
But it's not the same. It's like sniffing a book instead of reading it.
But I still don't want to end up on the street or jobless again. I don't
know. Does it make sense?
[Edited on 28/11/2007 by Sorrow] |
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Schizo
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 897 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 28/11/2007 at 02:58 AM |
Certainly, today's set-up of the 40-hour work week and two-day weekend is a
very artificial arrangement - a sort of hamster-wheel lifestyle which can
be very numbing, and yet supplies security both for employers and employees
alike, and as such, it makes sense. A sort of necessary evil.
A more natural arrangement, however, was, say, the subsistance farmer's
lifestyle. Everything for its season, and a season for everything.
Plowing and planting in the spring, caring for the plants over the growing
season, a harvest, and then a winter to survive. And always, still, the
daily routines of caring for animals, making food and clothing, and such.
And yet, I am sure the farmer thought his routine difficult, numbing, and
restrictive at times.
You could go further back, to the hunter/gatherer days, when things were
less structured, and also far more dangerous. Less structure, but also far
less security. You survived as long as you could kill your prey or find
food growing, and you died when you could no longer manage it, or when
something else decided you were food.
I don't think it really matters. I myself work a 50 hour week, and come
home to be a single mom of a kindergartener. Not exactly a lifestyle
fraught with freedom and adventure. I've achieved a certain amount of
security that I am very proud of, but I also remember the days when I lived
in a homeless shelter (and was a happy woman).
Generally, I think if you feel numbed or unhappy, it's your own fault and
not that of your routine. I can find happiness wherever I am, and if I
really find that a situation I am in is unhealthy, I have the courage to
rock the boat and sacrifice security to change things.
Some people just seem to prefer to have numbed minds, some don't. It
doesn't seem to have much to do with their circumstances or schedules. I
can find adventure working in a factory assembly room (doesn't mean I
wouldn't mind getting out).
Some people say "I want to go out and live my own life." They don't
realize that this is a meaningless statement. You are living your own life
right now. The good, the bad, and the ugly. Dig into it deeply, whether
you are changing it or not. There's good stuff (and wisdom) to be found
wherever you are.
Thus Schizo ends her sermon. Time to get ready for work. ____________________ "You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of
girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism" |
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Monolycus
Fanatic Posts: 580 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 28/11/2007 at 06:37 AM |
Well, lookee here, boys. Somebody must have done gone to church 'cos God
Almighty went and dropped a philosopher in our midst. Bow your heads low
and say thanks, boys, 'cos them's mighty good eatin'.
quote: I'm of the mind that
routine destroys a person's potential for wisdom and intelligence, by
oppressing the closed minded imperative.
You're gonna have to define your terms there, boy. What's your purpose
here? You looking for clarity o' thought or are you trying to bedazzle the
teenies with a string of polysyllabics? You were doing so well until that
comma came along.
quote: See, we do the same shit
every day, because by doing this same shit, we've established some sort of
sense of security and guidance when it comes to surviving in society, most
especially because this is what, precisely, is awaited of the common
man.
Awaited "of" or awaited "by"...? Let's clean up some of those
prepositions. I've never met this "common man" you're on about, but I know
what most folk have to look forward to, and that's a whole lot of
uncertainty. You looking for security? Count on death and taxes. After
that, it's all negotiable.
quote: I can tell this by old
people always saying the same stories over and over again; such examples
show that the person has to keep reminding themselves that at some point or
another in their life, they did or experienced something worthwhile. they
learned something form it, and try to keep it alive by presenting it as
some huge feat.
Gonna need something closer to science in your survey there, boy. I reckon
that there's as many reasons why old people tell the same stories as there
are old people to ask about it. The reason this particular old person
repeats himself is because young know-it-alls didn't listen the first time
around.
Some might be reassuring themselves, and I'll place a wager that some are
just amusing themselves with the tried-and-true. For some, I reckon it's
what the boddhistavas call "habit energy"... they do the same things for
the same reason that you keep breathing in and out every day without mixing
it up a little bit. It's what they know. Repetition builds muscle memory
and that's a hard habit to break. I expect it works the same way with your
synapses; "As above, so below" and all that.
For still others, it could just be their wyrd. Don't flatter yourself into
thinking you choose everything fresh from moment to moment. You do what
works because it's time consuming and irritating to re-invent the wheel
every day. You brain saves you a lot of frustration by switching on the
auto for the small stuff. Be grateful it does that when you're not fussing
over your doorknob on the way to take a piss.
quote: Because other then this,
routine destroys everything. it like, stalls your mental or spiritual
progress...or some shit.
You mean like the way practicing playing a guitar makes you less able to
play it? Once again, you're gonna need to define your terms, boy. There's
productive routine and non-productive routine. And they are both what you
make of 'em.
Yeah, the Greeks thought work kept 'em from thinking. That's why they had
a slave class to do the washing and mending and wiping of the philosopher's
asses. The Italians figured professional moochery was a way around it and
had rich folk patronize 'em. The Enlightenment geniuses were mostly idle
trust-fund babies who had to do something to justify all their free
time.
And then there was Einstein. Patent clerk when he came up with special and
general relativity. Had a mind-numbingly tedious job and let the
data-entry free up his gears for him. Just a matter of that muscle memory
I was on about earlier. If you can't think and work, you obviously need
practice. If you can't remember your profundities come Miller Time
afterwards, buy a damned notebook.
quote: I thought I was miserable
and suicidal when I didn't have a job and didn't know what I was going to
do about the rent or food; but every day was an adventure, and I'm sure
I've learned so much more shit form struggling like a jackass then I have
been for the past three years. I have a job now and just do the same thing
over and over again. Weekends are sought after for whatever freedom I can
extract from it, and recap the shit I like to do. But it's not the same.
It's like sniffing a book instead of reading it.
So, let me get this straight. When you were unemployed, you were miserable
because you didn't appreciate what you had going for you. Now that you're
working, you're miserable and you assume it's for a different reason? I
don't think anyone's handing out solid gold houses and blowjobs... might be
you're just gonna want something different and not appreciate the present
no matter what it looks like. There's that habit energy the boddhisatvas
keep going on about again. Food for thought, if you're not too busy.
quote: But I still don't want to
end up on the street or jobless again. I don't know. Does it make
sense?
"Want" factors into a lot when you're four. After that, not so much. My
advice is to deal with what you have instead of wrestling with the fiction
of what you want.
In other words, you're not paid to think, boy. Shut up and get back to
work.
____________________ "I believe that woman is planning to shoot me again." |
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 28/11/2007 at 08:33 AM |
"I'm of the mind that routine destroys a person's potential for wisdom
and intelligence,"
While I respect independent thought, I believe you are wrong. The most
enlightened of our species were all creatures of habit and ritual. For
once, am making no citations... don't believe me, do some research...
I do agree that we are becoming less...but it is not our work that is doing
it... it is the air conditioning, the television, the cars and the easy
nature of our work...the fact that we coddle the weakest of us. it is a
departure from the natural order of ourselves that is causing all you have
cited.
I can tell this by old people always saying the same stories over and
over again you can't tell shit about what's going on in another
person's head. Plain and simple - unless you are psychic, and I don't think
you are, you would be a great deal more famous.
I do agree that you need more hardship... your instincts are being
neglected and the fight for survival awakened you... go to th woods with
nothing but a knife once a month.. experience what it is to live...
Does it make sense? no...not really ____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist |
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Sorrow
Occasional Poster Posts: 18 Registered: 21/11/2007 Status: Offline
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posted on 28/11/2007 at 01:33 PM |
Great posts guys-awesome. Especially that Monolycus farmer man. Tell you
what, I'll think about it at work and reply when I get back. |
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Sardonic-Pain
Fanatic Posts: 248 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 28/11/2007 at 01:38 PM |
Monotony is the name of the game where I work. 12 hours a day comprised of
the same shit over and over. It pays the bills very well so why complain. I
used to be homeless but always actively looking for employment. Most any
job you're gonna have is repititious...you didn't pick up on writing the
alphabet by just writing it down once did you?
Seriously what freedom is there with no job? You have no money to do
anything with and what are you doing with those 8-12 hours you arn't
working? Probably nothing productive. Going through the motions of doing
nothing all day, bitching about not having money and how unfair life is.
And then have the same piss and moan argument about how your job sucks and
life is unfair.
So really its all just one big repetitive circle.
____________________ My Life is like a porno-Without the sex-Just the weird music |
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Monolycus
Fanatic Posts: 580 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 28/11/2007 at 09:47 PM |
quote: ...that Monolycus farmer
man.
Dadgum whippersnappers! ____________________ "I believe that woman is planning to shoot me again." |
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 29/11/2007 at 09:01 AM |
Great posts guys-awesome. I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic
or not... so I will assume you are... in response I can only say... don't
ask for an opinion if you don't want it ____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist |
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Merry_Widow
Fanatic Posts: 598 Registered: 24/8/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 29/11/2007 at 07:34 PM |
I don't think it's sarcasm. I think it's honest enjoyment of a good
discussion, whether or not all points are agreed on. ____________________ Okay, dazzle me. |
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daria_4
Member Posts: 96 Registered: 29/7/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 29/11/2007 at 08:23 PM |
quote: I don't think it's
sarcasm. I think it's honest enjoyment of a good discussion, whether or not
all points are agreed on.
That's also how I took it. ____________________ "I've told you before, I don't comprehend religion, although
conviction is a concept I'm beginning to get. In any case, a person
with a real religious conviction is, I propose, a religious convict,
and deserves locking up." |
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Monolycus
Fanatic Posts: 580 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 29/11/2007 at 11:28 PM |
quote:
quote: I don't think it's sarcasm. I think it's
honest enjoyment of a good discussion, whether or not all points are agreed
on.
That's also how I took it.
I was too busy tilling the soil to work out how it was intended...
but if he's still on the job mulling things over, I'll concede that he does
work longer shifts than I do. Been what, two days now? Cesar Chavez
apparently got me a better union than this guy has. ____________________ "I believe that woman is planning to shoot me again." |
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 30/11/2007 at 06:18 AM |
Still think it was sarcasm...just the way it was worded... since work was
his cosmic oppositional force..couple with the fact that he normally
responds within hours... and most people..when expressing an enjoyment of a
conversation... do not word it in that manner... from many years of forum
usage.. that response dos not seem sincere... or... he is more socially
inept than I... which I find VERY hard to believe... ____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist |
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Merry_Widow
Fanatic Posts: 598 Registered: 24/8/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 30/11/2007 at 09:25 AM |
But Feral, he added a smiley face at the end. A SMILEY FACE .
Surely that is meant to put our hearts and minds at ease when it comes to
the subject of good intentions.
And Mono, you have to be the damn sexiest philosofarmer I've ever seen. ____________________ Okay, dazzle me. |
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Schizo
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 897 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 30/11/2007 at 05:56 PM |
My personal take was a certain degree of condescension. Like he was
preening himself on having awoken intelligent discussion. But I could be
wrong. I'm still having trouble making head or tail of some of his
sentences. Trying to figure out if he is trying to be obscure, or actually
does not quite know how the English language fits together. Some of his
responses seem to indicate a certain level of effort spent on being
deliberately unclear. It's funny how some people seem to think that is a
sign of superior intelligence.
Not saying there isn't a time and a place for artful obfuscation... but it
shouldn't leave one wondering if the author is ignorant or pretentious.
Bah. I don't have time for this stuff anymore. Wake me up when someone
shows up who actually knows how to communicate.
Sorry if I sound snarky - I'm exceptionally tired tonight. ____________________ "You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest
of
girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism" |
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 30/11/2007 at 10:28 PM |
Widow: and we all know my view on smileys!!! I did not get a college degree
to communicate in a crude system of pictograms... I am sooo opposed to
them, that I don't even notice them anymore... ____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
/>
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist |
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Meranda_Jade
Fanatic Posts: 511 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 30/11/2007 at 10:34 PM |
Jesus fucking Christ, Feral... we finally have someone in here actually
starting a constructive discussion, and all you can do is complain about
potential sarcasm? Grow the fuck up.
I would have said something earlier, but I have been having computer
problems and haven't been on for a few days. I was very pleasantly
surprised to see a conversation going. I hope it continues going.
Sorrow, continue discussing. I hope to see more lively activity in the
future.
And Schizo... WTF?? Artful obfuscation?? Isn't that what this place was
BUILT on?
We can sit around and bitch about wording, grammar,
suspicions-of-insults-that-are-in-our-own-heads.... or we can shut the fuck
up about supposed "flaws" and have a nice, long thread about something that
doesn't involve attention whoring.
This isn't anything personal for either of you, by the way... but it is
DEFINITELY snarky, and so help me, if people don't stop being fucking
babies and chasing away anything good around here, it will get a WHOLE LOT
snarkier.
____________________
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Monolycus
Fanatic Posts: 580 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 30/11/2007 at 10:35 PM |
____________________ "I believe that woman is planning to shoot me again." |
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Meranda_Jade
Fanatic Posts: 511 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 30/11/2007 at 10:41 PM |
____________________
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 30/11/2007 at 11:16 PM |
MJ: I am me...I am the same me that you have defended. I, in this case have
been calm, and discussed with no hostility whatsoever... I did not bash, I
did not get shitty nor did I rant...
and all you can do is complain about potential sarcasm
go back and read before you jump me for making one comment on the
sarcasm... I was the one primarily discussing with him untill
recently...
so in this case..I say with respect...
fuck off...
don't get on me for being me...
____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
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Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist |
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Monolycus
Fanatic Posts: 580 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 30/11/2007 at 11:41 PM |
Well, this certainly hasn't broken any routines. ____________________ "I believe that woman is planning to shoot me again." |
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