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Author: Subject: is suicide painless?

Coward





Posts: 1
Registered: 24/4/2007
Status: Offline

  posted on 24/4/2007 at 11:26 PM
does ne1 hear know about suicide, whetehr it is painless, wethehr it hurts or is scarey or anything like that, or any reason sombody should not do it wehn theyr all the ones that care about them? i mena, some people say tehy care but tehy eithre dont really or tehy dont know you really and so tehy cant say tehy do or dont cuz tehy dont have all teh infomration. im lost hear, i want help from sombody who cares, but i dont know who that is if naybody. plz hlp, i dunno nebody that cares. kthxbye.
 

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Posts: 1810
Registered: 31/12/1969
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  posted on 25/4/2007 at 07:46 AM
1) please use english...
2) what the fuck?
3) if you want help... go to the emergency room they will get you help
4) otherwise this is a cry for attention... get help or just fucking do it... but don't waste our time with this stupid bullshit...

I have seen many people threaten to kill themself... and frankly... when faced with the choice in point 4... not one has done it... because the person that makes posts or statements like this... wants us to fluff his pillow and tell him what he has and give him attention... and has no intention of committing suicide... I know one person... who I believe meant it... but it was a confidential statement and not a public declaration like this...

basically... people who want to die, just do it, and do it quietly because no one will intervene that way...

so... go do it... or change the subject...

sped

 

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Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist

 

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Posts: 511
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 25/4/2007 at 09:50 AM
Wow, Feral.

You know, I understand the seeing it as a plea for attention... but I've known enough people who have made serious attempts on their lives to take EVERY mention like this seriously. ANd I don't care if this person is illiterate or not... they may truly be in pain.

Besides, as the first to reply to this person's post, you GAVE THEM ATTENTION.

To autohomocidos... Look kid, I don't know what is going on in your life, but I can tell you this... bad things are usually temporary, and there is so much out there that would be a shame to miss out on because you're dead. Better to wait and see what happens next. I know that feeling like nobody cares hurts. I know that feeling alone and empty hurts. Try to get past the hurt and calm down enough to realize that you still have you. You always have you. And you can care for yourself just fine.

Good luck.

 

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  posted on 25/4/2007 at 09:56 AM
Now I can't get that damned song out of my head.

 

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Posts: 580
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 25/4/2007 at 11:38 AM
To answer the question in the header... probably not as painful as living. That's what life is.

But sometimes pain can be good. Depends on what you do with it. If you're prone to dealing with it negatively, then it's time to break some old habits.

As for the other question: Does anybody care? Maybe, maybe not. Why is that important? Most animals just do their thing and tough it out and I'm not sure how many of them wonder if anyone or anything really, genuinely, honestly and truly gives a crap about them. Looking for something that may or may not exist is a sure method for firing up your discontent. Wu wei. You're a leaf on the wind.

There might be genuine compassion in the world; it's certainly a comfort to think so. But it doesn't change anything whether there is or is not. If comfort is what you're going for, there are more efficient pursuits than trying to eff the ineffable. I can't recommend a good half of them.

Try changing your lens. Work from inside out instead of looking for something outside to work inwardly. Look at the world through the eyes you used to, oh, say twenty years ago when you wrote notes to me and left them in the light fixtures.

 

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"I believe that woman is planning to shoot me again."

 

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Posts: 580
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  posted on 25/4/2007 at 12:01 PM
"I was just thinking," I tell him, laughing, "that here we sit, all of us, eating and drinking to preserve our precious existence and really there is nothing, nothing, absolutely no reason for existing."
The Self Taught Man becomes serious, he makes an effort to understand me. I laughed too loud: I saw several faces turn towards me. Then I regretted having said so much. After all, that's nobody's business.
He repeats slowly:
"No reason for existing... you undoubtedly mean, Monsieur, that life is without a goal? Isn't that what one might call pessimism?"
He thinks for an instant, then says gently:
"A few years ago I read a book by an American author. It was called
Is Life Worth Living? Isn't that the question you are asking yourself?"
Certainly not. That is not the question I am asking myself. But I have no desire to explain.
"His conclusion," the Self Taught Man says, consolingly, "is in favor of a voluntary optimism. Life has a meaning if we choose to give it one. One must first act, throw one's self into some enterprise. Then, if one reflects, the die is already cast, one is pledged. I don't know what you think about that, Monsieur?"
"Nothing," I say.
Rather, I think that is precisely the sort of lie that the commercial traveller, the two young people and the man with white hair tell themselves.
The Self Taught Man smiles with a little malice and much solemnity.
"Neither is it my opinion. I do not think we need to look so far to know the direction our life should take."


from La Nausée, Jean-Paul Sartre.

 

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  posted on 25/4/2007 at 02:52 PM
Being in pain and being too much of a coward to face life... are two separate things...

when my best friend said this same basic thing... I handed him a knife and said do it... now... in my tub... get it over with... or get over it...I will help you grieve and survive... but this bullshit stops now

please note... that the recommendation for help came before the declaration of loathing...

btw... illiteracy I have no problem with... I mean, it is rarely the illiterate's fault... but that is not illiteracy... it is... abhorent

[Edited on 4/25/2007 by feralucce]

 

____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.



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Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 25/4/2007 at 05:12 PM
If I were feeling helpless and desperate, and I went to my best friend for help, and he told me to just go ahead and "get it over with"... I believe that it would cause me great pain to know that my best friend didn't care if I lived or died, and I would think that I was completely fucking worthless and deserved to die.

Yes, it offends me when someone does not take suicide seriously. I will always have a raw nerve about this subject. I've felt like offing myself before, and if not for the kind and careful way my friends who cared about me handled it, I may have gone ahead with it myself. Are you going to call me a coward, because I once made a "cry for attention"?

WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU TO DECIDE WHO IS GENUINELY IN PAIN AND WHO IS A COWARD???

You, yourself, have said that you cannot read the motives of others, that you have a condition that prevents this. You are the LAST person to be involved in a forum such as this. What if that boy saw you post and decided to kill himself, based on your flippant response? I bet you would think that he was a waste of skin in the first place... based on the way he was writing. Did you stop to think that maybe his typing was garbled because his eyes were full of tears and his hands were shaking? No, you just went ahead with a self-righteous rant.

If you don't know what a person is thinking, don't presume to insert your own interpretation of the events in place of what is unknown. That is just pure fucking hubris, and no emotional disability will be a get out of jail free card for this one.

There is a difference between right and wrong, and even emotionally disabled people can tell the difference.


These are my opinions, not about you personally, but about this forum, and as this is the Karma free zone, I am comfortable in making my opinions known.

 

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Posts: 1810
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 25/4/2007 at 07:56 PM
I never said that i decide who is in pain and who is a coward... a coward flees this mortal coil... sources philosophical and literary support the statement...

It is not cowardly to cry for attention... if you choose to get help... then you are brave enough to face life... By getting help... you show that your cry was NOT just attention grabbing...

I am allowed my opinion and response to this...

Flippant: shallow, or lacking in seriousness; characterized by levity... There was no fucking flippancy here... DEAD SERIOUSNESS... there was no levity... I meant exactly what I said...

No offense... but there was no interpretation

let me reword it...
if it was a genuine cry... THEY NEED HELP... LOOK AT IT... I SAID GO GET HELP

There was no judgement... there was an if then statement... if a then do b else c... but I acknowledged the possibility that it was real... The statement that people who want to truly do it would not handle it in this fashion is supported by many studies in forensics and psychology... (several articles in the new england journal of medicine and psych)ology today

but frankly... I don't care... if he offed himself because of the words of a perfect stranger, then he was not a benefit to our society as a whole...

On the other side... I have had 5 different friends say they wanted to do it... and you know what... After talking to me... and being told the same thing... they got help.

Lastly, judging the by the fact that the boy sent me a message that said "you make me sad i the pants," I was right in my statement that this was bullshit... I may not understand people's motives, but my instincts about most things are dead on...

 

____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.





Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist

 

Fanatic




Posts: 511
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 25/4/2007 at 08:54 PM
3) if you want help... go to the emergency room they will get you help
4) otherwise this is a cry for attention... get help or just fucking do it... but don't waste our time with this stupid bullshit...


So, basically, you're saying that you don't want YOUR time wasted with this bullshit.

I really don't mind MY time being wasted.

I don't know what has been said privately, but I'm pretty sure that, as you don't know anything about this individual, you can't possibly know what is going through his mind.

I really hate it when I have a problem and someone says, "Shut up, go away and don't bother me; I don't want to hear it."

That's pretty much what you said here. Take your problem somewhere else; nobody here cares to deal with it.

Except that I cared to deal with it. Monolycus cared to deal with it.

Can you reference the articles in the New England Journal of Medicine, and Psychology Today that reported that "people who want to truly do it would not handle it in this fashion is supported by many studies in forensics and psychology" ? I would like to read those articles, and then send letters to the editor to both magazines, explaining how irresponsible such a statement is. Every hotline operator is trained to take EVERYTHING seriously... even hysterical pleas for attention.

"a coward flees this mortal coil... sources philosophical and literary support the statement..."

Are you aware that both of those sources are OPINION and not fact? Philosophy is merely someone's rationalization of life. Not all philosophers agree and not all of humanity agrees with the philosophers. There are some pieces of society whose philosophies consider fleeing this mortal coil courageous. Now, if that is YOUR opinion, that's just fine and dandy. Personally, MY opinion is that people who are in extreme pain are not likely to be thinking clearly, and can't see past the pain or an end to the pain. And sometimes they make bad choices because of it. It has nothing to do with bravery or cowardice. It's the same mechanism that causes those in pain to cut themselves. That has nothing to do with bravery or cowardice, either.

As for your 5 friends, I'm glad they got help. I personally have never felt the "handing a knife to the person and telling them to go ahead and do it, or get over it" bedside manner was appropriate. Matter of fact, my personal opinion is that I find it damned insulting. It's like the way of dealing with a friend's crisis is to shame them and mock their pain. Yeah, I guess it would make one feel kinda silly to be sitting there with a knife, being told to go ahead. I doubt many would follow through in that situation. But then, suicide is kinda a private thing, isn't it? You don't want to do it in front of someone else.

Talking it out with someone is difficult enough.. by the time you get to "I feel all alone, please help me"... things are pretty grim, and not to be taken lightly... even if the person is a stranger and blindly reaching out to strangers.

It can be hard to feel empathy for someone you don't know at all, I suppose. And besides, your condition doesn't really allow for empathy for complete strangers. I understand that. I understand that it would be difficult for you to fully understand the situation and respond appropriately.







[Edited on 4/26/2007 by Meranda_Jade]

 

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Posts: 1810
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 25/4/2007 at 09:00 PM
Yes...as I said in that post... my opinion...
"I am allowed my opinion and response to this... "

and now I will repeat it as it bears repeating
"I am allowed my opinion and response to this... "

And go get help... not because I cannot be bothered to deal with it... but because... like you meranda... I am not qualified to help this person...

if they want to do this... they need the help of a psychological professional... which I am NOT... therefore... go get help... so you CAN get help...



[Edited on 4/26/2007 by feralucce]

 

____________________
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/>





Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 897
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 25/4/2007 at 09:00 PM
Apparently - since Feral's best friend is not only still alive, but also still his best friend, maybe it wasn't such a terrible thing for Feral to say at all. Maybe his friend knew him, and Feral knew his friend and what he needed to hear.

And I don't know if Feral is calling you a coward - but I actually tried to kill myself - and yes, it had its elements of cowardice. I am not afraid to face the fact that I was too weak and cowardly to fight my way through my situation at the time, and tried to just give up. Didn't work due to situations beyond my control. So I ended up telling someone - after the fact. No one knew before. If someone tells someone they want to kill themselves, it is either a last ditch effort to be stopped, or a "pity me" cry. Usually it's pretty obvious which is which.

Meranda - you yourself are making assumptions about this person - not to mention assumptions about Feral. As you said...

quote:
If you don't know what a person is thinking, don't presume to insert your own interpretation of the events in place of what is unknown.


I realize your views and methods differ from Feral's. That's OK - it takes all kinds to make the world go round. Feral is a social Darwinist - if you don't have the will to adapt and survive, than you won't make it and the universe won't weep for you. You seem to want to heal all the hurts in the world and make everyone feel better no matter who they are - unless they are Feral, who seems to be perpetually put in the corner for his misdeeds. Makes no sense to me why someone who briefly stumbles on the site deserves more consideration than someone who has been a part of the family since the beginning, but I see it happen over and over again.

Thing is - Feral has this truly strange reputation as someone who is pointlessly mean to newcomers. The reason this is strange is, when a new person emerges and asks for help or whatever, and everyone else makes some nice comforting, welcoming post in the forums, Feral actually puts his neck out and contacts the person one-on-one, and tries to establish a personal connection with them. Yes, sometimes this backfires on him. But at the same time, there are several newbis that he has kept a prolonged correspondence with, long after the rest of us have forgotten them and their problems. There are people who count him among their most trusted friends who have dropped out the Shmeng scene for years, but still keep in touch with him.

Is it possible that Feral is not an ogre? or even a mere blundering oaf? not a poser, an attention whore, a melodramatic egotist, a rabble-rouser, a bully, or any of these things he keeps being accused of?

Yes, I keep standing up for him. So sue me. I'm sick to death of the misconceptions surrounding this guy. People treat him like he has no feelings. So careful of the newbis, but say whatever to Feral. Well, I know Feral. I know who he is and who he isn't. I know the good, the bad, and the ugly. I know him better than anyone on this site except maybe Callei and Shade, and I know him more recently than them.

He's a grown man, so don't stand him in the corner like a child. He has feelings, so don't trample him like he's made of stone. He tells the truth, so take him at his word, and quit trying to second guess him.

We're supposed to be an open-minded bunch, who can accept people who are different, who have other views than ours, who don't fit in. I love you, Meranda, but stop trying to change Feral into what you think he should be. He is who he is. And he has a right to have his own views and his own ways, even if they make you nervous.

 

____________________
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  posted on 25/4/2007 at 09:12 PM
I would like to stress, also that NONE of us know this person... you don't know them any better than Feral does, Meranda... we are all acting according to our views, our opinions, our experience, and our instincts. Which means we are all going to come at this in different ways and from different angles. For all you know, Feral said exactly what needed to be said. Or maybe you did. Or Mono did. Or maybe no one said the right thing. Since none of us know the person, it's all guesswork.

 

____________________
"You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of
girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"

 

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Posts: 511
Registered: 31/12/1969
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  posted on 25/4/2007 at 09:19 PM
Can neither of you see what I actually said? I thought I was being pretty clear.

Nobody is trying to change anybody. I am having a discussion about why certain statements hit a nerve with me. I very clearly stated my opinions on what has been said, as is the nature of DISCUSSION.

Schizo, I applaud you for standing up for the man you love and giving him your support. Loyalty is something that not many have in this day and age, and you stick to your guns, I'll give you that.

You accuse me of trying to treat Feral like a child. If I were treating him like a child, I would not be trying to have a grown-up conversation with him. Should I show him less respect than I showed Monolycus in the Democracy forum? I believe I made my opinions quite clearly known there, as well... and Mono is still my friend. He didn't have anyone sticking up for him like this, either. He pretty much had to defend himself on his own.


Why do these debates always turn into "Poor Feral"? Why can't we have a discussion about something without making it about how he's getting attacked or misunderstood? Why can't HE discuss something rationally without being all defensive and hurt that someone isn't in complete agreement with him?

My opinions and views are as valid on this site as his are. So are everyone else's. Just because someone's opinion differs from his doesn't mean he is being attacked.

And my opinion of how he handles a suicidal plea for help still stands. I don't have to fucking agree with it.

 

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  posted on 25/4/2007 at 09:21 PM
It is way beyond the person at this point. I said my piece there, and I hope it helps. I did what I felt I could. Whether I was QUALIFIED or not. This is about an opinion I have on suicide and how to handle it in general. The conversation had evolved. Or so I had thought.

 

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  posted on 25/4/2007 at 09:25 PM
I really am not trying to pick a fight here. I am trying to have a discussion. You know... we used to have those here. People would just jump in and say what they felt like saying. And people wouldn't be all pissy about it, either. We used to call each other names and everything. Remember? Oh the fun that was had! Now everyone's too sensitive to handle anything like that, and it's no fun anymore.

God, I love the Karma Free Zone.

And, while I am kinda irritable right now... *kisses to you both* No hard feelings on my part.

 

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  posted on 25/4/2007 at 09:30 PM
I am not being sensitive either... I am having a discussion...

 

____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
/>
/>







Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist

 

Fanatic




Posts: 511
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 25/4/2007 at 09:38 PM
Glad to hear it, Feral. *grins*

So, Social Darwinism, huh? I can see the merits of that, as idiocy is rampant in this day and age.

I have an overactive compassion meter, though. I have to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, whether I want ot or not.

 

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  posted on 25/4/2007 at 09:41 PM
Meranda... I see what you are saying, and I also see how you are saying it, and I also see that you feel strongly, and I also see that you are being hurtful (although perhaps not intentionally.)

quote:
Just because someone's opinion differs from his doesn't mean he is being attacked.



It is possible to differ in opinion without attacking... but there are attacks in your phrasing.

example...

quote:
WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU TO DECIDE WHO IS GENUINELY IN PAIN AND WHO IS A COWARD???

You, yourself, have said that you cannot read the motives of others, that you have a condition that prevents this. You are the LAST person to be involved in a forum such as this. What if that boy saw you post and decided to kill himself, based on your flippant response? I bet you would think that he was a waste of skin in the first place... based on the way he was writing. Did you stop to think that maybe his typing was garbled because his eyes were full of tears and his hands were shaking? No, you just went ahead with a self-righteous rant.

If you don't know what a person is thinking, don't presume to insert your own interpretation of the events in place of what is unknown. That is just pure fucking hubris, and no emotional disability will be a get out of jail free card for this one.

There is a difference between right and wrong, and even emotionally disabled people can tell the difference.



Meranda - I realize this strikes a nerve with you, but phrasing things this way is just plain hurtful, whether intended that way or not. There are ways to have a strong variance of opinion without getting personal about it. You treat Feral like his views are terrible, and you are correcting him. When his views saved the lives of several people who still call him friend.

Feral does not ask me to defend him. He does fine on his own, without tearing your views down, either. Please re-read what he said. You put so many words in his mouth - so many interpretations of what you think he meant, and all he is doing is simply stating an opinion... not even commenting on yours... just explaining... he never said your views were wrong... he never expected you to just agree with him... he never got his feelings hurt over a difference of opinion... just patiently restated things.

*sigh* I am not saying poor Feral... if anything poor Meranda...

and standing by Feral is not for sheer loyalty's sake. It is because the truth is worth being stated. Not the truth about whose opinion is right or wrong, but the truth that you, Meranda, are not seeing this man for who he is or even reading his words as they are intended.

I honestly don't see why it is so hard to understand the man. I don't think he could have stated things more calmly or clearly.

 

____________________
"You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the />
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest
of

girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 897
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  posted on 25/4/2007 at 09:43 PM
*sigh* long post, and of course the conversation evolved while I was writing it... maybe we should employ darwinism in posts, so when the conversation evolves, outdated posts can go extinct...

[Edited on 4/26/2007 by Schizo]

 

____________________
"You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and
the
/>

dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest />
of


girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"

 
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