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Author: Subject: pro choice

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  posted on 1/12/2006 at 07:42 AM
So here, I have a question, possible more a statement, possibly more a I should not drink and write sort of situation, but that is what you got on your hands so deal with it.

Anyway, I recently had an announcement from a friend of mine saying that she was pregnant. All kinds of congrats there, I have a great deal of respect for people that have children. The thing is that she felt the need or possibly the compulsion to make the statement that she was of course excited and then "i'm keeping it, even though I'm totally pro-choice."

Now here is the thing. Why is it that women who are pro-choice always feel compelled to restate that when they decide to have children. What kind of fucked up society do we live in where it is not okay for women to support the rights and decisions of others while making different and equally valid decisions for themselves. Why can't a woman just have her baby and still be pro-choice. Why does this bug me?

It just grates that in this day and age a happy mother to be has to defend her choice to be a mother to be and being pro-choice. Having children should not automatically invalidate a woman's right to be pro-abortion. In the same way that having an abortions does not automatically qualify a woman for th pro-choice club. These are decisions that are very personal that are made regardless of our situation and why can't we make them and not be judged for them.

Maybe that is what bugs me, the judgment. Or maybe it's the tequlia. If this argument as any sort of flow feel free to comment. If not, we can let it die and well, I'm fine with that.


 

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  posted on 1/12/2006 at 08:35 AM
I've noticed that happen on occasion and while I don't know the real reasons for some people feeling the need to restate their position in those circumstances, I've come up with a few ideas on it.

When I worked in an area with a large Catholic presence, it seemed almost like it would come from a Catholic who would "whisper" it. Done much in the same way that one of the Catholic ladies would "whisper" they can't have children anymore because they had their tubes tied. Similarly, being on the pill would get "whispered". Like they would be lynched if the wrong people overheard their comment.

Where I live at now doesn't seem to have all that many Catholics and consequently I don't seem to hear the subject brought up as much. Although, there is a large availability of birth control in the area as well as over the counter "night after" pills.

One of the ideas I've got is that some women feel they don't have a choice on their own, but want to make sure that if the person they are talking to might choose to abort, they would still "like" them. (Seemed to be a Catholic pro-choice position.)

Another one is one I discovered when I worked with several Pentacostals. (There is a large Pentacostal presence in the area that I live in now.) They indicated to me that if a person is not "godly" then there is no push to save the unborn child, but if a person is "godly" or the father is "godly" then there is a push to urge them to not choose abortion. ("Godly" in the sense they had meant it was meaning a member of a Pentacostal congregation or family.

Outside of those situations, the only thing I seem to be able to make of it is that maybe someone thinks you'll no longer think they have a pro-choice type mindset since they've now had a baby of their own. In that case, I can see them wanting to make a comment, but yea it does always seem a little odd for some reason to me to.

 

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"When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I've never tried before." ~Mae West


 

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  posted on 1/12/2006 at 02:11 PM
As far as I know, pro-choice means, well, pro-CHOICE, meaning, you can carry the kid to term if you choose, or not if you choose. What could be more pro-CHOICE than CHOOSING to keep a baby?

I don't know - seems obvious to me.

 

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  posted on 1/12/2006 at 11:28 PM
It's simple. We're women. We fuck up no matter what we do. If we get an abortion, we're heartless, cruel creatures who murder babies; if we have children, we're contributing to the overpopulation problem. Men will blame us for every evil in the world, including not fucking them when they want us to, and there's nothing we can do about it. Really. Look back a bit. We're responsible for the fall from grace, we tempt men into doing things they don't really want to do (because you know ALL men really want is their purity) and we're gold diggers who prey on men to take care of us when we're fully capable of taking care of ourselves. We cold bloodily use men for our own advancement and never give anything in return. We should be ashamed of ourselves. Fie, woman! Your name is disaster and betrayal!

Fuck all of you who make people feel self-conscious about personal decisions.

All we ever wanted was a fair shake in this world.

 

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  posted on 2/12/2006 at 01:39 AM
quote:
As far as I know, pro-choice means, well, pro-CHOICE, meaning, you can carry the kid to term if you choose, or not if you choose. What could be more pro-CHOICE than CHOOSING to keep a baby?

I don't know - seems obvious to me.

That was what I was thinking. Why does choosing to keep your baby make you any less pro-choice? Do they think that people will think they're not really pro-choice unless they have an abortion? What weird kinda sense does that make?

 

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Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life.

 

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  posted on 2/12/2006 at 03:50 PM
My question is... why, when you choose to help another person into life... to alter your entire existence to include a new soul... does it have to be a political descision... and I think that is the real issue... it is not that they HAVE to defend it... but that they feel the need to state a political agenda

Though... in most cases I feel that procration should be an earned privilege and not a right...

 

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  posted on 3/12/2006 at 03:54 AM
Hmmm... that interesting concept that keeps popping up - the idea of the privelege, rather than the right to procreate. I wonder how many of us would exist if our parents had to pass a test for the right to conceive us. I know I wouldn't.

What is the point behind it, anyway? So the precious little children won't have to go through tough times? So that everything can be idealized? I went through hell - my childhood was shit - it made me who I was, scars, fears, and all. Gave me something to fight - to defeat - to use to my own advantage. Would my life have been easier if I had been supplied with wiser, more capable parents? Probably. I wouldn't have ended up the person I am now, though.

The rest of nature doesn't lay tests and rules around procreation. An animal feels the urge - it finds a mate - it fucks - and offspring occurs. And sometimes the offspring have a tough time of it - sometimes they do not survive. It's sad - it's brutal, but it's life.

I'm certainly not advocating irresponsible procreation - or unnecessarily putting children through hardships. I AM however, very much against a certain elite group deciding that certain people are more likely than others to put their children through hardship - and forbidding them to have children as a result. I am very much against any attempt to idealize this rough and deadly world we live in. And I say this as the child of a violent paranoid schizophrenic and a brain-washed cult member who has been abused and neglected on many levels for most of her existance.

 

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  posted on 3/12/2006 at 07:14 AM
YES... nature DOES inflict htese tests...

We, as human beings protect our young, coddle them... so the stupid ones can survive... in nature the stupid don't normally surive unless they are very very lucky...we have already idealized it... look at the playgrounds they are building now days... soft angles, plastic, rubber matts... remember the things we used to play on... we are breeding a generation of soft children that won't survive when it snows too much... I remember my father shuffling my ass off to school after a blizzard... there was 12 inches of snow and school ran... 14 inches fell in missouri this week and they are tring to get declared a disaster area...

My feeling on the subject is that the important things need to be taught by the parents... a mother lion teaches her cubs how to hunt... mother primates teach them how to climb and what is safe to eat... but in this culture... the important thigns are left to television and the schools... and often, they don;t take enough interest to see WHAT the child is learning...

who administers the test? that is simple... when we have pissed off the other countries of the world enough that we are bombed back to the stone age, we as a whole will be forced to live on what we are and what we know... nature will sort us out and give us the right to procreate through one simple declaration... you survived...

 

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  posted on 3/12/2006 at 07:20 AM
UNtil that time comes... I propose... not a test...I don't give a shit if someone is smart or worthy... but they should still earn it...a complicated application procedure... to make sure that they REALLY want the child... if it has a 14 day waiting period before they can reproduce... with a death penalty or imprisonment for reproduction without a liscence... people will be damn sure that there are no unwanted babies around because they are afraid that god will hate them for an abortion...

 

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  posted on 3/12/2006 at 07:48 AM
One of the things that really bothers me about society - how desperately we try to force things to survive that otherwise would be naturally wiped out. Not that it isn't already a natural instict to help the weaker members - the pack instinct - find others with varying strengths and weaknesses - band together to form a sort of self-protecting organism where the whole is stronger than the sum of its parts - but each member has to contribute or it will be rejected and lose the protection of the pack...

Today that role is taken over by the government - and the government can never truly measure merit like a pack can. So those who don't deserve the support get a free ride, and those who do deserve it get a huge hassle trying to prove that they merit a little boost in a hard time.

And meanwhile, there are the vultures circling around - preventing people like myself from really facing up to the brutality of life in the way I really want to - making sure I live by their rules or else... I go along with the program - not because I want to - but because the system is big, and will squash me like a bug if I do not adapt - and we all know the principles of evolution - adapt to survive.

I would rather fight life tooth and nail and be beaten honestly by it than be pampered and coddled by society - but if I did that, they would take my daughter. Frustrating...


 

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  posted on 3/12/2006 at 08:36 AM
yes, they would... which is my point... we call it society, but the base word is social... and I don;t knwo about you...but i cannot be social even with my CITY government... the laws are made by people who don;t have anything to do with the people tehy govern...

Societal rules should be based on the society that you live in... those that you are related to OR those you choose as your family... not by faceless entities voting away oure rights and the writes of other countries

 

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/>





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  posted on 3/12/2006 at 09:09 AM
Like "Social Security", which as we all know is anything but. True social security is knowing that, when you are too old to care for yourself, there will be those who care about you and value enough to care for you. If you do not form yourself into something those around you will value, then you will not be cared for, period.

But, as usual, we have drifted from the original topic! My apologies, Dom!

 

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  posted on 3/12/2006 at 09:15 AM
Although, perhaps, it pertains more than I see at first glance - it is sad that the term pro-choice has come to mean merely pro-abortion - why should choice only apply to that one issue? I am pro-choice in that I believe that people should be free to choose how to live their lives - free to pursue their own way of life - even free to exterminate themselves (intentionally or unintentionally) if that is what they choose to do. It is not a political issue - I am mostly apolitical. It is just how I am - I do not want to make choices for others, and I do not want them making choices for me - even for my own good. Period.
 

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  posted on 4/12/2006 at 08:40 PM
I think my feeling on it sober goes more towards Schiz's argument. Why should one have to define the choice that is being made. Choosing to have a child or choosing against should not be something that needs to be explained or established, it should be a choice, period. Maybe my anger is just directed at the neo-facist fucks who have made the population of people that believe in pro choice feel so guilty about it. Guilty to the point were subconsciously we feel the need to defend the choice to procreate as much as the freedom to terminate.

As to survival of the fittest, never going to happen. We're meat sacks with good fortune and when our luck runs out we're dinner.

 

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  posted on 5/12/2006 at 11:02 AM
I think if you are going to call it terminating the pregnancy, it should be done by a little robot that looks like arnold who crawls into the ladies hoo ha and sais, "Have you seen this fetus?" until finding it and terminating it.

If the fetus manages to trick the robot into getting crushed in a hydrolic press, it gets to live.

 

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  posted on 5/12/2006 at 11:17 AM
Dom... I disagree... our life cycle on this planet will change drastically... but some of us will survive...

 

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/>
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  posted on 5/12/2006 at 08:17 PM
the fight over pro choice and pro-life is such a hackneyed one,
and i cant help but think that some of these prolife people havent really done enough thinking before they badger someone who is prochoice.
i had a long conversation with a friend of mine who is quite decidedly prolife and wont hear a word to the contrary, but i brought up one thought that i think might be a bit off base.
but to argue that terminating a pregnancy, aborting your pregnancy, what so ever you choose to call it, is to take away the right to life another human being, that the choice is being unfarily made for a being that has no say in the matter. and this goes back to what feral said about laws being made with no thought to or contribution by the people that they are meant to govern and "protect"
following such a religious train of thought, if god made us in his image, the most important part to that argument is that he gave us free will, the right to choose, and decide the course of our lives for ourselves,
so am i wrong is asking why choosing to abort a pregnancy is such a huge deal?? if deemed necessary by the would be mother, why should she have to defend that choice past saying that it is her choice to make, and hers alone?

 

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  posted on 5/12/2006 at 09:04 PM
quote:
"i'm keeping it, even though I'm totally pro-choice."


Like Pixi said - "Why does choosing to keep your baby make you any less pro-choice?"
She chose to keep her baby, thats a choice. What gets me about it is "even though", as if she has to get an abortion to prove she is pro-choice. And not aborting means you must be pro-life. And like Feral said, why does it have to be a political statement anyway? Way to take a hack-saw to the joy of procreation.

Personally I am pro-choice. But I also stand for safe sex and use of birth control! If you don't want to be pregnant, then either take the right precautions or don't be having sex. The number of abortions is way too high for all of them to be the accidents that sometimes happen despite birth control. It's mainly people who can't maintain self control.

While I don't neccessarily agree that there should be some sort of test to prove if you are going to be a good enough parent, or to make sure you really want to have one, a lot of accidental children are born completely wanted, it pains me to think that there are children growing up completely unwanted. People who take money for their 1 year old child to be raped and get AIDS to feed their own drug addiction. There are some hardships that make people who they are, but there are many others that kids don't survive.

 

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  posted on 6/12/2006 at 06:37 AM
For the record...I am not pro choice... I am not pro life... I am pro "I am a male so I will never have to make this decision, and I have no place trying to decide what you can do with your shit, so I will stay the fuck out of it." but that doesn't fit well on bumper stickers

 

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/>

/>









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  posted on 6/12/2006 at 10:21 AM
Feral, would this work?:

♂ Pro-make your own choice.

 

____________________
"When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I've never
tried before." ~Mae West




 
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