|
|
| Normal Rooms | | General | 4 users
AntiStaticCleaningWi, melinda_halliwell_tu, Mistress_SinisterLov, littlegothgirlthatco |
|
|
|
|
|
Currently no members online:)
You are an anonymous user. You can register for free by clicking here |
We have 8 guests online !
|
|
|
 |
 |
Forums
You are not logged in | | |
|
|
|
W0rmW00d
Fanatic   Posts: 355 Registered: 5/8/2004 Status: Offline
|
posted on 5/8/2004 at 07:42 AM |
 What the
hell is with vegetarianism? Seriously. What is wrong with eating the flesh
of another creature? Many other creatures do it. It provides uch needed and
hard to substitute nutrients. It is natural.
We give ourselves all of these fantastic moral grounds for not killing othe
living beings and it is frankly extraordinary. If there was a consistency I
could perhaps deal with this, but the fact of the matter is that many
people fanatical abot vegetarianism will not raise a finger to help another
person. You whine and whinge about the cruelty of it and try to 'actively'
do something, yet I do not see all of the vegetarians flocking to the third
world with their excess food and money. It is spent on the more expensive
substitutes for meat. A few pounds or pennies, or dollars perhaps, do
absolutely jack all. It is a technique to make you feel better. Do you stop
driving because of the damage it causes? How about your electricity? Or
your gas? Or the vast resevoirs built to pump water. They do more
irreperable damage to the world than my steak ever can. I could even
actively try and wouldnt manage as much through meat eating. Some people
choose to leave morals aside in some issues but will condemn all when they
do not conform to the morals which they have chosen. This hypocracy is
completely unforgivable. What is more; meat tastes great. It is marvellous.
I lived on a quorn and tofu diet but all i tasted in this time was the vast
amounts of seasoning necessary to make the goddamn stuff edible. So get a
grip. Don't be inconsistent. Don't even try to uphold some 'morals' and let
others slide. Save a cow. Eat a vegetarian.
|
| |
| |
Abbadon
Fanatic  Posts: 499 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
|
posted on 5/8/2004 at 07:54 AM |
Cows, pigs and sheep of the varieties we farm do not exist, and have not
existed in the wild for hundreds of years. When a beef cow is born its sole
(excuse the pun) purpose on this earth is to produce beef. Killing it is
simply fulfilling its allotted purpose. Cows cannot even live in the wild
any more, they are genetically bred by humanity and therefore rely on it.
Why don't vegetarians go out to Africa and try and preach to lions that
they should eat fruit instead of other animals. Are they not killing to
fulfill their place in their food chain. Humans are at the top of theirs
and therefore can choose any animal beneath them to eat as part of the
natural process. To go against this is to go against nature, and we've all
seen Jurassic park haven't we! ____________________
Light is changing to shadow, and casting a shroud over all we have known.
|
| |
MystryssRavynDarque
Extreme Fanatic   Posts: 648 Registered: 24/9/2002 Status: Offline
|
posted on 5/8/2004 at 08:25 AM |
| W0rmW00d you do not know what you have started here. There are quite a
few vegeterians and vegans on this site who can back up everything they
believe in. Try and take a look at a few of the past articles and forums
on it. They stretch on and on. ____________________
"People always say what we are looking for is a meaning for life…I don't
think that's what we're looking for. I think what we're looking for is the
experience of being alive." -Joseph Campbell
|
| |
W0rmW00d
Fanatic Posts: 355 Registered: 5/8/2004 Status: Offline
|
posted on 5/8/2004 at 08:29 AM |
| i can back up all i said too. i will be very willing to attempt a point by
point retort to anything that is said. if i do not succeed to my own
satisfaction i will gladly become a vegan. ____________________
Eritis sicut Deus scientes bonum et malum.
And the third angel sounded, and a troll army did descend upon the world.
|
| |
bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
|
posted on 5/8/2004 at 08:48 AM |
I have to work, and when I get back I have to bug bomb my house (bad vegan!
whatever...) BUT...but but but...when the chemical fog clears and my house
is clean again tonight, I shall return, pronto. Tofu in hand.
And mrd, let the games begin. I think we're about to see QUITE a bit of
action  ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
|
| |
bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
|
posted on 5/8/2004 at 08:48 AM |
I have to work, and when I get back I have to bug bomb my house (bad vegan!
whatever...) BUT...but but but...when the chemical fog clears and my house
is clean again tonight, I shall return, pronto. Tofu in hand.
And mrd, let the games begin. I think we're about to see QUITE a bit of
action ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
|
| |
MystryssRavynDarque
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 648 Registered: 24/9/2002 Status: Offline
|
posted on 5/8/2004 at 08:54 AM |
| I have my binoculars ready. Let the games begin! Yay! I love a good
debate. ____________________
"People always say what we are looking for is a meaning for life…I don't
think that's what we're looking for. I think what we're looking for is
the
experience of being alive." -Joseph Campbell
|
| |
Shade
Fanatic  Posts: 289 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
|
posted on 5/8/2004 at 10:04 AM |
OK, I'll take a run up and get some of the logical arguments out of the
way.
First, Vegetarians, to varying degrees, do not eat meat. A vegan will not
eat meat, eggs, milk, cheese, roe, most gelatins, or any other animal
product. The reasons for either approach vary as much as the reasons for
atheism, color preference, personal philosophy, or even trolling.
I personally am Vegetarian because I do not like the way animal
protein(Meat) interacts with my bodily fluids. The morning after I have
eaten meat My sweat invariably smells sour to me. I have heard from a
number of lovers that my cum is less tasty after I have eaten meat, often
within a few hours, and my saliva usually tastes meaty and greasy to me for
a couple of days after I have a burger. So I don't do it. I will on
occasion indulge in a good breakfast of eggs Benedict and I am always
tempted by good sushi, but on the whole I eat less than a pound of meat a
year. As for the cute little animals, I say fuck 'em. I wear more leather
than cotton and I like it that way. I honestly think the animal industry
keeps more sick fucks employed right now than any career other than the
police and the clergy. Which means that they are busy skull fucking sheep
and not children. In reality I think something should be done about the
conditions under which animals are kept, but I think there are a lot more
important issues facing the world right now. I also know some people on
this site truly feel differently and I respect their opinions as well.
Other reasons for not eating meat include genetic issues. I have a very
close friend who cannot digest most animal proteins, I mean literally if
she eats a steak, she better take small bites, and that's as graphic as I'm
going to get. She get's severe stomach aches if she tries to eat anything
with too much (say about a quarter of an egg) egg in it and she is allergic
to milk proteins and sugars to such an extent that were she to drink a
glass of milk; if the anaphylactic shock didn't kill her outright, she'd
probably kill herself from the pain of the lactose reaction.
Others are vegetarian, and in this case usually Vegan for political
reasons. I have had friends who refuse to eat domestic meat, but who will
dig into a good Venison steak because it's the result of man or woman
hunting the thing down in it's natural habitat so that the thing only knew
between a few seconds and a few hours of anything other than the wild free
life. This group of people (which is pretty wide in it's reasoning as well,
but is more Bettie's demesne) does not eat meat because of the treatment of
the animals and because while they cannot stop the animal industries
mistreatment as an individual, they can stop subsidizing it with their own
purchases and they can stop condoning that same mistreatment by eating the
products of the animal industry.
Then there are still others who are vegetarian or Vegan for health reasons
other than allergies. There are those few intelligent dieters out there who
still believe that cutting some of the fat out of their diet will help them
keep from putting fat onto their hips (as opposed to the scary atkins
people), and there are those who are worried about colon cancer or other
internal health issues that are related to the damage that meat does as it
passes through the body. Still others do not eat meat because of the
hormones (Naturally occuring or human introduced) that they get by eating
said meat.
The political vegetarians/vegans are the ones most hard hit by the same
things that hobble any group powered by the strength of its conviction.
There are going to be vegetarians who claim that they do not eat meat
because it's killing all the cute a fluffy animals, they will go to the
protests, scream "Meat is murder" at the top of their lungs, go home with
that ruggedly sexy protester (gender unimportant, they are both usually
rugged) have wonderful vegetarian sex with them and then go home in their
leather interior car, kick off their leather birkenstocks at the front door
and make themselves an omelette from eggs whose parents have never met and
whose eyes have never seen natural sunlight. These people are hypocrites
and will always be hypocrites. They will waffle from one belief group to
the next based purely on someone they want to sleep with, or worse, the
fact there is nothing between their ears and they will follow any
charismatic leader who speaks after the follower has sneezed.
And finally, to address the taste issue, this is always going to be a
matter of preference. I actually enjoy the hell out of the flavor of most
meat, I also enjoy the hell out of the flavor of most fake meat. I also
really really enjoy the art that goes into flavoring just about anything
with spices and herbs. I love the fact that when I cook from scratch the
only sodium I ever need is naturally occuring in the vegetables and herbs I
cook. I love the subtleties of flavor that one can achieve with well
blended ingredients. But if you can't hack the flavors man, get out of the
kitchen. ____________________
It is only through the lack of sex that humanity derives the need for an
all encompassing blind love. And in that moment of extreme horniness with
no relief in sight, in that moment can be found the birth of religion.
-Me
|
| |
Merry_Widow
Fanatic  Posts: 598 Registered: 24/8/2002 Status: Offline
|
posted on 5/8/2004 at 12:37 PM |
| Not only are there several well written articles about vegetarianism and
veganism in all it's varying forms, along with several rather lovely
recipes, there are also articles about waht to expect when you come onto
this site trolling around, making broad generalizations in order to get a
response. Of course, there is the chance that you might not be trolling.
You just might be a narrow minded person who didn't stop to think about the
many possible reasons people eat the way they do, nor did you look up the
correct spelling for hypocrisy. ____________________
Okay, dazzle me.
|
| |
feralucce
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
|
posted on 5/8/2004 at 02:21 PM |
I happen to fall on the conivorous and omnivorous end of the spectrum, but
I gotta ask... Wormed wood... Why do you have the right, and what gives you
the right to declare that they are wrong or bad for their dietary
habits?
Now... I will be the first to say that vegans and vegetarians can be
presumptuous and tell you what to eat... but you did not encounter that
here...
"They do more irreperable damage to the world than my steak ever can."
incorrect on several points... 1) The meat industry is driven by a need to
grow BIGGER cattle... to feed more people... Now... to do for that they a)
feed the cattle hormones b) breed for size and nothing else and c) used to
feed them the remains of other cattle... 2) they are HARD on the
environments... the herds that are kept FAR outstrip the ones that would be
there naturally... and 3) as a result of predation, we started hunting the
predatory species to preserve our cattle, and did so to extinction (or near
enough)
Bovine growth hormone causes problems in humans... from low birth rates,
infertility, cancer and my favorite birthdefects... when you breed for a
specific trait, other things fall by the wayside... were cattle to be
released over 80% would die due to our active eugenics programs... and the
third one resulted in mad cow disease... not to mention that when you feed
animals hormones you fuck up their immune systems, so you have to give em
antibiotics which gets fed to the humans and we become immune to them and
suffer later on...
Now... you have eaten a vegitarian diet... whopptie fuckin do... just
fuckin deal... and don't piss on other's dinner because you had a bad
experiencee at hot topic with a pissy vegan...
The Feral Has Spoken!
____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
|
| |
callei
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
|
posted on 5/8/2004 at 03:03 PM |
I wish these kids would leave thier school papers at school and not try to
make everyone else read them. If you double space it and make it font size
12... It fills one page nicely. also you can detect and opening or thesis
paragraph, a main body parapgraph with supporting "evidence", and a
conclusion paragraph summing up the main ideas. *yawn* i bet it got an "A"
since it only had 5 spelling/grammar mistakes and lots of schools accept 6
mistakes as the cut off for an A.
____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.
|
| |
feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
|
posted on 5/8/2004 at 05:47 PM |
Yeah... and I wish they would leve their pretention at the door
____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
|
| |
W0rmW00d
Fanatic Posts: 355 Registered: 5/8/2004 Status: Offline
|
posted on 5/8/2004 at 08:32 PM |
| too drunk to coherently reply now. will do so in the morning, but suffice
to say that i am well beyond schooling, and grammatical and spelling errors
are things that i did not care about even then. I shall attempt to respond
to all actual retorts when i recover from the hangover that i feel building
at the moment. I just put it in to spark what i considered an interesting
debate, but if people are not willing to be civil in their response i don't
see the point in such debate, or even in the site itself, what with abuse
being a common response to legitimate posts. ____________________
Eritis sicut Deus scientes bonum et malum.
And the third angel sounded, and a troll army did descend upon the world.
|
| |
feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
|
posted on 5/8/2004 at 09:15 PM |
Worm Wood: and that is exactly the point I was Making...
recommended reading...
http://www.shmeng.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&
amp;file=article&sid=708&mode=flat&order=0&thold=-1 ____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
|
| |
bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
|
posted on 5/8/2004 at 11:26 PM |
K kids, here it comes. I've nuclear gas murdered every insect in my house,
vaccuumed up their little corpses, shampooed my carpets, done my dishes,
ate dinner, and had a beer. Now, with that over....
Q: What is wrong with eating the flesh of another creature?
A: A lot of things, depending on circumstance. Number one, americans eat
ENTIRELY too much meat. Way too much. Gluttonous amounts. The human body
is not meant to process a hamburger or a steak or bacon or WHATEVER every
single goddamned day. As feral pointed out, people are omnivores, and most
people will pig out on meat before they'll touch something green. You can
survive indefinitely on greens and legumes and beans and well...plant life.
If you were to eat NOTHING but meat indefinitely, you'd die of
malnutrition (save for people who's genetics require the amino acids and
fatty proteins in meat. They do exist.). Secondly, when you consum the
flesh of another creature, and that creature, that sentient BEING, has
never had a free life, and is treated as an object and subjected to
emotional, mental, and physical torture for it's short dark lifespan,
EVERYTHING is wrong with it. EVERYTHING.
Second of all, SHUT UP about the goddamned "third world". WHICH third
world?! The zillions outside our borders or the zillions INSIDE our
borders? I'm sick to death of 'the children" and "the poor people". We,
as a species put ourselves in this situation. Yes, I feel terribly that
people are born into poverty, into disease, into terrible regimes and
rotten situations. I feel TERRIBLE for them, but I don't feel GUILTY
because I didn't put them there, and I resent being asked to feel bad for
other people. I won't do it, and you can't make me. Their situation is
not my fault, not my doing. The meat industry, however, is something that
my actions would directly affect. When I buy meat I had no hand in
raising, I am directly contributing to murder and misery (unless I would be
one of the few people who raise their own or buy "free range"). Am I
saving the world? No. Am I single handedly bringing down the "evil
empire" of the factory farm? No. Have I EVER thought that my one action
would be the pivotal move to bring the giant down? No. I simply refuse to
contribute, same as I refuse to contribute to products and companies that
seek impoverished or regime strangled countries to work for them, and do
what I can to let people know what goes on if they either don't know or ask
me about it, and hope they decide to not contribute to torture by going
"free range", cutting back, or stop eating meat alltogether.
Why are animals one of my top priority? Because they have no voice. The
"third world" has one, commercials and aid groups screaming "feed us, help
us, set us free". Animals have "wear us, consume us, enslave us, we don't
feel cuz we can't talk". If you want to feed the third world, I suggest
you do several things. One, start a petition to prevent the government
(the U.S. gov, especially) from destroying thousands of tons of
agricultural products yearly to keep yield low and prices up, and provide
it to the hungry. Next, cut livestock production and use the acres of land
it takes to produce 100 lbs of beef to raise soybeans, potatoes, grains
that will feed HUNDREDS instead of 5. Not to mention it'll cut the
pollution in the atmosphere, as there will be less and less methane gas
from heards of cows being released into the air, less gasoline used in
equipment to RAISE livestock, less soil erosion from constant farming to
feed the herds. Would you like me to go on?
Now, if we want to go into seasonings and flavors, well that's what you get
for buying processed food. Vegan or not. The red of your ketchup, the
yellow in your butter and cheese, hell even the red on your HAMBURGER in
it's packaging is dyed to make it look raw and appealing! Do you like your
french fries salted or unsalted? Do you use marinade on your meat or eat
it "dry"?
As for all my "exra money" spent on fake meat...hate to break it to you,
but I became vegan for a reason. Yeah, it's nice that when I want a
sandwich, I can have veggie deli slices, but they don't taste like meat,
and I don't buy them all the time. It's expensive if you're a vegan who
wants to eat like you're not. All the new fancy food has only come out in
the last four years or so. My husband has been vegan since he was 16,
which is 14 years. They didn't have veggie slices and tofurkey and fake
sausages back then. Hell, they didn't have them SIX YEARS ago when I
stopped eating meat. We ate...well, vegetables. Duh. Hence the word
"vegetarian".
And I"m not going to spend my extra pennies on the "third world". I'm
going to continue to spend it on cigarettes, alcohol, and video games. And
on my all girl Judas Priest cover band "hell bent for pleather". And I'm
going to love every minute of it.
So. In conclusion, I see you have a problem with what vegetarians, in your
mind, THINK they're doing, but I ask you this; what the fuck are YOU doing
that's so friggin special? ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
|
| |
Schizo
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 897 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
|
posted on 6/8/2004 at 02:24 AM |
My darling Worm. If you want to debate and not be insulted, it might be
advisable to initiate the discussion with a post that does not sound like
an insult.
And if you don't like the way the site operates, well, no one's holding a
gun to your head to keep you here. ____________________
"You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of
girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"
|
| |
Abbadon
Fanatic Posts: 499 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
|
posted on 6/8/2004 at 02:56 AM |
| The tests for the effects of BGHs on the human genetics hasve never been
proven conclusively, and therefore are not submissable in a reasonable
argument. And using allergic reactions as an excuse for vegetarianism,
really? What percentage of the world population are really allergic to
meat? 0.01% maybe, if your lucky. I sense straws being clutched at! Nice
try. ____________________
Light is changing to shadow, and casting a shroud over all we have known.
|
| |
feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
|
posted on 6/8/2004 at 06:34 AM |
| Abbadon: well then I will go tell the FDA that their studies are wrong...
sorry for listening to an informed source... ____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
/>
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
|
| |
Abbadon
Fanatic Posts: 499 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
|
posted on 6/8/2004 at 07:02 AM |
| You think the FDa do their own research? They hire research companies to do
it. Their findings are normally based on around 60-70% probability, I
wouldn't call that conclusive. Nice try. ____________________
Light is changing to shadow, and casting a shroud over all we have known.
|
| |
Shade
Fanatic Posts: 289 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
|
posted on 6/8/2004 at 07:43 AM |
| Abbadon: Feral quoted a source, you just talked about "the tests" with no
source. You are asking a group which does not like you to take your word on
information of which you have no proof. You fail the debate test, go to a
differenet class. And take your puppet w0rmw00d with you. ____________________
It is only through the lack of sex that humanity derives the need for an
all encompassing blind love. And in that moment of extreme horniness
with
no relief in sight, in that moment can be found the birth of
religion.
/>
-Me
|
| |
|
|
|
