Maybe it's in their doctrine, but I am sure that there are many other forms
of "destroy the opposition" doctrines...or at least orally. Our societies
of today are products of conquering nations. It's a fact.
quote: Xianity especially is
one of the most bigoted hypocritical religions on Earth.
Perhaps the fundamental Bible thumpers have a lot of bigots, but I can also
point out die-hard environmental Pagans following the same lead...just to a
different extreme. Yes, you rarely hear of it, but it's there. You have
the ones that preach about how bad oil is for the environment, yet they do
not mind jumping in their cars and littering their cigarette butts on the
grounds. Then there are the ones that piss and moan about how evil
Christians are, yet are committing the same, prejudiced acts when they find
out someone is a Christian. Yes, the Christian religion as a whole has
been violent, but so have many other religions and cultures in the past.
Even if the conquerers before them didn't say "Convert to my religion or
die!", I am sure it is along similar lines. Ethnic clensing isn't just in
the form of religion.
I suppose I shouldn't resist pointing out the hypocritical atheists
(keyword: hypocritical, not atheist) who claim to be "open-minded", yet are
quick to say that there are no open-minded Christians. Then there are
those who speak of religious tolerance, yet it is double-standard if you're
a Christian. Should I speak anymore?
I also find it amusing that those who commit the acts above sometimes refer
their selves to the "Enlightened Ones." If that is all "Enlightenment",
then I rather keep in the dark.
[Edited on 4/6/2004 by Anya]
Zero
Fanatic
Posts: 459 Registered: 15/2/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 6/4/2004 at 12:58 PM
i beleive myself to be Christian, and i beleive in tolerance for all
religions....but then again when i hear of a woman being stoned to death
because she was beleived to be promiscuous and their religion calls for it,
i become a complete and total hypocrite and only in that moment am i proud
of my hypocrisy.
____________________ "It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak." ~
The Sandman, Dream Country
Anya
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 6/4/2004 at 01:09 PM
Just a little note: I'm not trying to say that Christians as a whole are
perfect. No one is perfect. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate to keep the
grounds as neutral as possible.
Rayce: I thought about the main topic for a moment. I guess everyone has a
point as far as the Elementary levels go. I would beg to differ in the
older levels, though, when children can think at a different level. Just
had to review my psychology a bit...I suppose you had a point on the
younger kids.
Zero: I would not say so, but I suppose it depends on which
denomination...none of them seem to agree with the same interpretations,
just as certain Neo-Pagans think that Feminazi's (I call them Feminazi's
for they're Matriarchs, not Feminists) are hypocritical for excluding all
male energies. The main question for you would be - which part of the
Bible do you find more important, Christ's teachings or the Old Testament
brimstone?
Zero
Fanatic
Posts: 459 Registered: 15/2/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 6/4/2004 at 01:22 PM
we just seem to be pushing your buttons today, huh Anya??
i beleive myself to be Christian but i do not beleive i am, faith is a hard
thing for me to have. i do beleive in many of christs teachings but the
rest seems to discourage me from wanting to be apart of the religion. (or
any religion really)
____________________ "It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak."
~
The Sandman, Dream Country
Anya
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 6/4/2004 at 02:22 PM
Pushing my buttons? Oh geez, give me a break. I'm actually
laughing in amusement at the whole "Xianity" thing. It's one of the
biggest things that members of this site like to potshot...also seems to be
the thing that a good amount of people love to piss and moan about.
Granted, they may if they want to, but it doesn't mean that I wont point it
out when it gets redundant or play Devil's Advocate.
I'm not a Christian anymore, so you know Zero, but it's always good to poke
at all categories, even your own. It shows that I actually have a bit of a
sense of humor.
People can look at me as grumpy if they want to, but deep inside, I'm just
laughing at their quick accusations.
By law in the US... if they let those priests in, they HAVE to let in reps
of ANY other religious persuasion, including satanic, Discordian, etc...
Feral
____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
EyeCandyRayce
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Posts: 247 Registered: 19/1/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 6/4/2004 at 02:49 PM
I didn't see Anya getting upset at all. Just voicing her opinion and why
she had it. I have been enjoying a good debate myself.
I learned a long time ago that religion and politics are not things you get
into debates about. Those are things you get into fights about so I tend to
avoid picking any kind of side or voicing an opinion when it comes to
religion. All I will say regarding religion is I have found closed minded
people in all religions. I've found caring open minded people in all
religions. Who we are on the inside has nothing at all to do with what God
or Gods we believe in. An asshole is an asshole. If he/she didn't have
religion to use on you he/she would find something else.
My problem with the preachers going into schools is more concerning
childrens safety then anything. Safety being physical and mental. It is not
hard to scare the shit out of an 8 year old and telling them that
themselves or their family is going to burn in hell for all eternity is
pretty freaky to a kid. If it was a preacher I knew I wouldn't mind because
I would know what kind of stuff he is saying to my child. Is he teacher her
how to be a good person or a God fearing sheep? Plus there is the issue of
the safety of the children who are being encouraged to talk to total
strangers.
____________________ Suicide Hotline - Please Hold
Zero
Fanatic
Posts: 459 Registered: 15/2/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 6/4/2004 at 06:22 PM
Anya: i definately didn't think you were upset. i was just playing with
you, and as always it's good to read your opinions.
____________________ "It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will
speak."
~
The Sandman, Dream Country
RavensSoul
Member
Posts: 63 Registered: 27/3/2003 Status: Offline
posted on 6/4/2004 at 08:59 PM
I'm not sure where exaclty the articles on this could be found on the
internet. My parents don't get the newspaper anymore. Your best bet would
to look for stuff under the NEWS ENTERPRISE, because that is the E-town
paper here, I don't know how much of this the papers covered, it wasn't
even in my county. A lot of what I heard was from news reports on the
TV.
I wasn't trying to say that I'm anti-religion because, trust me, I'm not.
I'm all for people doing what they want and believing what they want as
long as they aren't physically hurting other people and as long as they
know that the consequences are theirs to deal with.
The thing about all this that bothered me the most is that these people
were going into the schools and saying whatever they wanted to these little
kids. It's like what Rayce said, they aren't old enough to know that they
don't have to listen to it and they could be scared shitless by what was
being said to them. It's completely different, most middle schoolers will
think enough, or are at least rebellious enough to not listen if they don't
want to, not believe it, or listen faithfull if its what they believe in. A
highschooler could just say "this is bullshit" and leave, because
highschoolers here can come and go *from lunch* as they please.
It's all about people having access to kids and the people who should be
watching these kids not knowing about it. Kentucky is full of fucking
pedophiles and child molesters and weirdos. Trust me, I've encountered a
few of them and have the emotional scars to prove it.
Also, I just wanted to say that I never meant to imply that religion in
school is being made manditory here. It's pretty much split down the
middle, the people who think it should be and the people who think it
shouldn't be, that there should be an alternative to make as many people
happy as possible. Thats why I suggested the class thing.
Sorry that's a lot of random babbling. It's late. I'm sick. and I just
dranka cup of coffee.
____________________ In my eyes, to be human is not to be able to live and die, but it is to
feel pain, love, happiness, and all other things that keep our hearts from
freezing over into the bloody ice that distinguishes man from the beasts of
night.
IamSquid
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 658 Registered: 27/5/2002 Status: Offline
posted on 6/4/2004 at 09:35 PM
Feral: I would LOVE to see a Discordian (umm... preacher?) rolling apples
in an elementary school lunchroom. Although I'm not Discordian myself I
have to admit I think most of us would benefit by having a Discordian
around us whenever we're at school, at work, or generally in a situation
where people take everything too seriously.
Anya: I'm not saying that Xianity is the only fucked-up religion in the
world. ALL organized religion is form of conformity therefor brainwashing
therefore a cult! Xianity just happens to be the biggest one out there at
the moment and the #1 priority of the Xian Church is converting everyone on
the face of the Earth!
This means that Xians who read the Bible, interprit it as they will, and
generally think for themselves are probably not brainwashed and not
cultists. I have no problem with this at all. But Xians who make it their
buissness to assimilate the globe tend to be fucked-up cultists who pose a
threat a child's individuality if they're trying that crap at school.
If yoo want to raise yor kids Xian, that's entirely yor perogative, but if
I want to raise my kids to drench themselves in goat's blood and sodomize
their lovers with crucifixes yoo better recognise.
____________________
i wanted to die, and then it progressed into wanting everyone else to
die so i could watch, and then me die.
-ickgirl
Dolorosa
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 856 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 6/4/2004 at 10:06 PM
Hey...mebbe I should petition myself into schools...that would be fun.
Convert the little snot-shockers to the Anemonic cult an raise an army of
small angry weirdos.
Church...if it isn't a problem, you aren't doing it right.
____________________ In the valley of the Goats, the Goat Fucker is King
Domkitten
Fanatic
Posts: 470 Registered: 23/9/2002 Status: Offline
posted on 6/4/2004 at 10:11 PM
Just to elaborate on a point here from the perspective of a teacher in the
schools and someone who has to go through three background checks,
fingerprinting, TB tests, and a full physical just to be able to work with
kids.
No one, and I mean no one, should be allowed onto school propriety during
working hours when children are present if they are not parents, gaurdians,
or school staff. There is a reason that we make people sign in and report
to the office to explain what their business is before we let them go
anywhere.
If a school anywhere is allowing people to sign in as guest and go and sit
down with the kids in a lunchroom, then the administrators are out of their
minds and need to be replaced.
If you have only ever been in a lunchroom as a student, that you may not
realize how difficult and dangerous a situation is when an unknown adult
can simply walk in. You have anywhere from 100 to 200 kids eating at the
same time, and sometimes more, and maybe one or two overworked, underpaid
supervising teachers that have to give up their break time to watch the
kids eat. They trust that the adminstration is doing their job when they
let people into the building, and they probably wouldn't say anything or
notice if a priest or anyone else, got up with a child and walked off.
Regardless of the religion issue ,if you have STRANGERS walking into a an
elementary school and having access to kids, then you have a serious
potential threat on your hands and it won't be long before disgrutled
parents wanted to snatch children, child predators, and kidnappers all hook
onto this, "I'm a guest" bullshit and start walking off with kids.
If I were a teacher or a parent at this school I'd be throwing a bloody fit
at my principal for allowing this to take place. It's irresponsible to
allow it. It's dangerous to allow it. It has nothing to do with religion or
message. It's all about safety.
____________________ It's like kegel exercises for your throat.~Monolycus
EyeCandyRayce
Fanatic
Posts: 247 Registered: 19/1/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 7/4/2004 at 08:12 AM
Domkitten: Exactly my point. Regardless of religion the issue here is
safety. It is good to see an opinion on it from the view of a teacher.
____________________ Suicide Hotline - Please Hold
Squido: the word could benefit from more of us... and we;re called POEE
POPES... (search for the principia discordia... ) and I just disagree with
people being able to influence children without their parents
approval...
BUT that is why I am completely against the american public school system.
In 1983 the NEAA (national education association of america) issued a paper
about outcome based education. In that paper the president of the NEAA said
"it is not our goal to educate the minds of america's youth, but to shape
them, mold them and remake them in our own image." EWWWWWW
Feral
____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
IamSquid
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 658 Registered: 27/5/2002 Status: Offline
posted on 9/4/2004 at 03:52 AM
Well it wasn't SO long ago that I myself attended public highschool. At
the time I had alawys wondered how stupid the administration was for coming
up with the most ridiculuos system for schooling on Earth. I had just
assumed that schools were modeled after prisons. Now I know that education
is replaced by confomrmity and submission as the prime goals of public
school.
What better than the Xian Church to teach children to not stand out in a
crowd or have their own opinions?
____________________
i wanted to die, and then it progressed into wanting everyone else to
die so i could watch, and then me die.
-ickgirl
callei
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 9/4/2004 at 05:51 AM
public schools have never ever ever been about "educating" the kids for the
sake of the kids. they have always (yes i mean always but only in terms of
public schools in america funded by the large corporations and the state)
been there to teach conformity, basic factory skills, and to baby sit the
kids while the parents work.
That is why the quakers fought against them (as much as Quakers fight) and
why getting things like art and music programs has always been so hard.
there have been high points for education (usually during and just after a
big war) and high points for arts (the 70's mostly) but the function of the
schools in not to educate children to think.
IF public schools were designed to educate, would be pay teachers minimum
wage? IF the federal govt valued children as people wouldnt there be laws
protecting them, nurturing them, and supporting them? (letting them sign
themselves into care, feeding them and not only when they attend the state
run school, and grant money that was enough to cover the costs of private
college as examples). If public schools were there to broaden the mind,
grow the soul, and create community would they cram 35 kids in a class room
and pretend that they all learn the same way at the same speed?
I could go on and on about it. I personally believe that kids ahve rights
and are human beings. the federal govt doesnt. most states dont even
pretend. And christianity blames thier sins on thier kids. you get that
much disregard for the tykes in one place and you get things like school
uniforms, lunch programs that are full of bad foods, and teaches that make
less than day care workers.
____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.
Bane
Occasional Poster
Posts: 28 Registered: 14/7/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 19/7/2004 at 02:50 AM
What i wonder about.... here in Germany there are religion classes for the
students to choose at school(relating to their confession), those who don't
want to do Catholic or Protestant religion classes may attend ethics
classes(or in some regions even islamistic religion classes)...
Is there none religious education in America?
btw... if you are a teacher here in Germany, you "have made it" in a way
that you get paid well and don't have to worry bout being fired... because
every teacher in Germany is a civil servant and can't be fired anyway...
uhm... just my 2 cents to the debate.
callei
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 19/7/2004 at 07:26 AM
no bane, in america the schools that are funded by the government dont
overtly teach any "religious" studies. In schools funded by the parents and
a church, they do include classes on the religion of that church. Nor does
America pretend that only Christianity/Catholisism with perhaps Islam are
the only religions. In a "Religious Studies" class offering in highschool,
a student will be presented with Christianity, Islam, Jeudism, Buddhism,
and generally at least anamistic "religions" as well. Maybe america is
better at some things after all.
Funny i have a few German friends that are struggling to get enough work as
teachers or professors to make a living. I know its not easy for them to
get fired, but that doesnt mean that they can make enough money. Maybe that
is just at the university level?
____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.
Bane
Occasional Poster
Posts: 28 Registered: 14/7/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 21/7/2004 at 05:50 AM
@callei: uhm... maybe they get no job, because of unwanted suibject
combinations or because they are too old?
uhm... you missed a point that i mentioned...
the state doesn't say that there's only Catholic, Prostestant and evt.
Islam religion.
You could choose ethics if you are not interested in those mentioned...
the three mentioned are thaught at school because the demographics suggest
it...
You can make a good living as a teacher here, if you are NOT just a
elementary teacher or a teacher for "Sonderschulen"...
bane: age has nothing to do with anything...
and demographics is a flawed way to look at things... they take numbers
only from the "organised religions without taking into account that there
are many MANY independent religious practitioners and religions that don't
have a way to poll themselves... besides... why only teach what people
are... that is a bit like teaching an art class and ignoring the
impressionists, or a philosophy class adn ignoring the relativists
____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.