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Author: Subject: Religion in School

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 656
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 6/4/2004 at 12:39 PM
Maybe it's in their doctrine, but I am sure that there are many other forms of "destroy the opposition" doctrines...or at least orally. Our societies of today are products of conquering nations. It's a fact.


quote:
Xianity especially is one of the most bigoted hypocritical religions on Earth.


Perhaps the fundamental Bible thumpers have a lot of bigots, but I can also point out die-hard environmental Pagans following the same lead...just to a different extreme. Yes, you rarely hear of it, but it's there. You have the ones that preach about how bad oil is for the environment, yet they do not mind jumping in their cars and littering their cigarette butts on the grounds. Then there are the ones that piss and moan about how evil Christians are, yet are committing the same, prejudiced acts when they find out someone is a Christian. Yes, the Christian religion as a whole has been violent, but so have many other religions and cultures in the past. Even if the conquerers before them didn't say "Convert to my religion or die!", I am sure it is along similar lines. Ethnic clensing isn't just in the form of religion.

I suppose I shouldn't resist pointing out the hypocritical atheists (keyword: hypocritical, not atheist) who claim to be "open-minded", yet are quick to say that there are no open-minded Christians. Then there are those who speak of religious tolerance, yet it is double-standard if you're a Christian. Should I speak anymore?

I also find it amusing that those who commit the acts above sometimes refer their selves to the "Enlightened Ones." If that is all "Enlightenment", then I rather keep in the dark.

[Edited on 4/6/2004 by Anya]

 

Fanatic




Posts: 459
Registered: 15/2/2004
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  posted on 6/4/2004 at 12:58 PM
i beleive myself to be Christian, and i beleive in tolerance for all religions....but then again when i hear of a woman being stoned to death because she was beleived to be promiscuous and their religion calls for it, i become a complete and total hypocrite and only in that moment am i proud of my hypocrisy.

 

____________________
"It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak." ~ The Sandman, Dream Country

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 656
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 6/4/2004 at 01:09 PM
Just a little note: I'm not trying to say that Christians as a whole are perfect. No one is perfect. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate to keep the grounds as neutral as possible.

Rayce: I thought about the main topic for a moment. I guess everyone has a point as far as the Elementary levels go. I would beg to differ in the older levels, though, when children can think at a different level. Just had to review my psychology a bit...I suppose you had a point on the younger kids.

Zero: I would not say so, but I suppose it depends on which denomination...none of them seem to agree with the same interpretations, just as certain Neo-Pagans think that Feminazi's (I call them Feminazi's for they're Matriarchs, not Feminists) are hypocritical for excluding all male energies. The main question for you would be - which part of the Bible do you find more important, Christ's teachings or the Old Testament brimstone?

 

Fanatic




Posts: 459
Registered: 15/2/2004
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  posted on 6/4/2004 at 01:22 PM
we just seem to be pushing your buttons today, huh Anya??

i beleive myself to be Christian but i do not beleive i am, faith is a hard thing for me to have. i do beleive in many of christs teachings but the rest seems to discourage me from wanting to be apart of the religion. (or any religion really)

 

____________________
"It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak." ~
The Sandman, Dream Country

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 656
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 6/4/2004 at 02:22 PM
Pushing my buttons? Oh geez, give me a break. I'm actually laughing in amusement at the whole "Xianity" thing. It's one of the biggest things that members of this site like to potshot...also seems to be the thing that a good amount of people love to piss and moan about. Granted, they may if they want to, but it doesn't mean that I wont point it out when it gets redundant or play Devil's Advocate.

I'm not a Christian anymore, so you know Zero, but it's always good to poke at all categories, even your own. It shows that I actually have a bit of a sense of humor.

People can look at me as grumpy if they want to, but deep inside, I'm just laughing at their quick accusations.



[Edited on 4/6/2004 by Anya]

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1810
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 6/4/2004 at 02:25 PM
By law in the US... if they let those priests in, they HAVE to let in reps of ANY other religious persuasion, including satanic, Discordian, etc...

Feral

 

____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.

Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist

 

Fanatic




Posts: 247
Registered: 19/1/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 6/4/2004 at 02:49 PM
I didn't see Anya getting upset at all. Just voicing her opinion and why she had it. I have been enjoying a good debate myself.

I learned a long time ago that religion and politics are not things you get into debates about. Those are things you get into fights about so I tend to avoid picking any kind of side or voicing an opinion when it comes to religion. All I will say regarding religion is I have found closed minded people in all religions. I've found caring open minded people in all religions. Who we are on the inside has nothing at all to do with what God or Gods we believe in. An asshole is an asshole. If he/she didn't have religion to use on you he/she would find something else.

My problem with the preachers going into schools is more concerning childrens safety then anything. Safety being physical and mental. It is not hard to scare the shit out of an 8 year old and telling them that themselves or their family is going to burn in hell for all eternity is pretty freaky to a kid. If it was a preacher I knew I wouldn't mind because I would know what kind of stuff he is saying to my child. Is he teacher her how to be a good person or a God fearing sheep? Plus there is the issue of the safety of the children who are being encouraged to talk to total strangers.

 

____________________
Suicide Hotline - Please Hold

 

Fanatic




Posts: 459
Registered: 15/2/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 6/4/2004 at 06:22 PM
Anya: i definately didn't think you were upset. i was just playing with you, and as always it's good to read your opinions.

 

____________________
"It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak."
~

The Sandman, Dream Country

 

Member




Posts: 63
Registered: 27/3/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 6/4/2004 at 08:59 PM
I'm not sure where exaclty the articles on this could be found on the internet. My parents don't get the newspaper anymore. Your best bet would to look for stuff under the NEWS ENTERPRISE, because that is the E-town paper here, I don't know how much of this the papers covered, it wasn't even in my county. A lot of what I heard was from news reports on the TV.
I wasn't trying to say that I'm anti-religion because, trust me, I'm not. I'm all for people doing what they want and believing what they want as long as they aren't physically hurting other people and as long as they know that the consequences are theirs to deal with.
The thing about all this that bothered me the most is that these people were going into the schools and saying whatever they wanted to these little kids. It's like what Rayce said, they aren't old enough to know that they don't have to listen to it and they could be scared shitless by what was being said to them. It's completely different, most middle schoolers will think enough, or are at least rebellious enough to not listen if they don't want to, not believe it, or listen faithfull if its what they believe in. A highschooler could just say "this is bullshit" and leave, because highschoolers here can come and go *from lunch* as they please.
It's all about people having access to kids and the people who should be watching these kids not knowing about it. Kentucky is full of fucking pedophiles and child molesters and weirdos. Trust me, I've encountered a few of them and have the emotional scars to prove it.
Also, I just wanted to say that I never meant to imply that religion in school is being made manditory here. It's pretty much split down the middle, the people who think it should be and the people who think it shouldn't be, that there should be an alternative to make as many people happy as possible. Thats why I suggested the class thing.

Sorry that's a lot of random babbling. It's late. I'm sick. and I just dranka cup of coffee.

 

____________________
In my eyes, to be human is not to be able to live and die, but it is to feel pain, love, happiness, and all other things that keep our hearts from freezing over into the bloody ice that distinguishes man from the beasts of night.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 658
Registered: 27/5/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 6/4/2004 at 09:35 PM
Feral: I would LOVE to see a Discordian (umm... preacher?) rolling apples in an elementary school lunchroom. Although I'm not Discordian myself I have to admit I think most of us would benefit by having a Discordian around us whenever we're at school, at work, or generally in a situation where people take everything too seriously.

Anya: I'm not saying that Xianity is the only fucked-up religion in the world. ALL organized religion is form of conformity therefor brainwashing therefore a cult! Xianity just happens to be the biggest one out there at the moment and the #1 priority of the Xian Church is converting everyone on the face of the Earth!

This means that Xians who read the Bible, interprit it as they will, and generally think for themselves are probably not brainwashed and not cultists. I have no problem with this at all. But Xians who make it their buissness to assimilate the globe tend to be fucked-up cultists who pose a threat a child's individuality if they're trying that crap at school.

If yoo want to raise yor kids Xian, that's entirely yor perogative, but if I want to raise my kids to drench themselves in goat's blood and sodomize their lovers with crucifixes yoo better recognise.

 

____________________

i wanted to die, and then it progressed into wanting everyone else to die so i could watch, and then me die.

-ickgirl

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 856
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 6/4/2004 at 10:06 PM
Hey...mebbe I should petition myself into schools...that would be fun. Convert the little snot-shockers to the Anemonic cult an raise an army of small angry weirdos.

Church...if it isn't a problem, you aren't doing it right.

 

____________________
In the valley of the Goats, the Goat Fucker is King

 

Fanatic




Posts: 470
Registered: 23/9/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 6/4/2004 at 10:11 PM
Just to elaborate on a point here from the perspective of a teacher in the schools and someone who has to go through three background checks, fingerprinting, TB tests, and a full physical just to be able to work with kids.

No one, and I mean no one, should be allowed onto school propriety during working hours when children are present if they are not parents, gaurdians, or school staff. There is a reason that we make people sign in and report to the office to explain what their business is before we let them go anywhere.

If a school anywhere is allowing people to sign in as guest and go and sit down with the kids in a lunchroom, then the administrators are out of their minds and need to be replaced.

If you have only ever been in a lunchroom as a student, that you may not realize how difficult and dangerous a situation is when an unknown adult can simply walk in. You have anywhere from 100 to 200 kids eating at the same time, and sometimes more, and maybe one or two overworked, underpaid supervising teachers that have to give up their break time to watch the kids eat. They trust that the adminstration is doing their job when they let people into the building, and they probably wouldn't say anything or notice if a priest or anyone else, got up with a child and walked off.

Regardless of the religion issue ,if you have STRANGERS walking into a an elementary school and having access to kids, then you have a serious potential threat on your hands and it won't be long before disgrutled parents wanted to snatch children, child predators, and kidnappers all hook onto this, "I'm a guest" bullshit and start walking off with kids.

If I were a teacher or a parent at this school I'd be throwing a bloody fit at my principal for allowing this to take place. It's irresponsible to allow it. It's dangerous to allow it. It has nothing to do with religion or message. It's all about safety.

 

____________________
It's like kegel exercises for your throat.~Monolycus

 

Fanatic




Posts: 247
Registered: 19/1/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 7/4/2004 at 08:12 AM
Domkitten: Exactly my point. Regardless of religion the issue here is safety. It is good to see an opinion on it from the view of a teacher.

 

____________________
Suicide Hotline - Please Hold

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1810
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/4/2004 at 01:49 PM
Dom*grins* I thought that's what I said???

ne how...

Squido: the word could benefit from more of us... and we;re called POEE POPES... (search for the principia discordia... ) and I just disagree with people being able to influence children without their parents approval...

BUT that is why I am completely against the american public school system. In 1983 the NEAA (national education association of america) issued a paper about outcome based education. In that paper the president of the NEAA said "it is not our goal to educate the minds of america's youth, but to shape them, mold them and remake them in our own image." EWWWWWW

Feral

 

____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.



Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 658
Registered: 27/5/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 9/4/2004 at 03:52 AM
Well it wasn't SO long ago that I myself attended public highschool. At the time I had alawys wondered how stupid the administration was for coming up with the most ridiculuos system for schooling on Earth. I had just assumed that schools were modeled after prisons. Now I know that education is replaced by confomrmity and submission as the prime goals of public school.

What better than the Xian Church to teach children to not stand out in a crowd or have their own opinions?

 

____________________


i wanted to die, and then it progressed into wanting everyone else to
die so i could watch, and then me die.




-ickgirl

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 759
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 9/4/2004 at 05:51 AM
public schools have never ever ever been about "educating" the kids for the sake of the kids. they have always (yes i mean always but only in terms of public schools in america funded by the large corporations and the state) been there to teach conformity, basic factory skills, and to baby sit the kids while the parents work.

That is why the quakers fought against them (as much as Quakers fight) and why getting things like art and music programs has always been so hard. there have been high points for education (usually during and just after a big war) and high points for arts (the 70's mostly) but the function of the schools in not to educate children to think.

IF public schools were designed to educate, would be pay teachers minimum wage? IF the federal govt valued children as people wouldnt there be laws protecting them, nurturing them, and supporting them? (letting them sign themselves into care, feeding them and not only when they attend the state run school, and grant money that was enough to cover the costs of private college as examples). If public schools were there to broaden the mind, grow the soul, and create community would they cram 35 kids in a class room and pretend that they all learn the same way at the same speed?

I could go on and on about it. I personally believe that kids ahve rights and are human beings. the federal govt doesnt. most states dont even pretend. And christianity blames thier sins on thier kids. you get that much disregard for the tykes in one place and you get things like school uniforms, lunch programs that are full of bad foods, and teaches that make less than day care workers.

 

____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires away.

 

Occasional Poster




Posts: 28
Registered: 14/7/2004
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  posted on 19/7/2004 at 02:50 AM
What i wonder about.... here in Germany there are religion classes for the students to choose at school(relating to their confession), those who don't want to do Catholic or Protestant religion classes may attend ethics classes(or in some regions even islamistic religion classes)...
Is there none religious education in America?
btw... if you are a teacher here in Germany, you "have made it" in a way that you get paid well and don't have to worry bout being fired... because every teacher in Germany is a civil servant and can't be fired anyway...
uhm... just my 2 cents to the debate.

 

Extreme Fanatic




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  posted on 19/7/2004 at 07:26 AM
no bane, in america the schools that are funded by the government dont overtly teach any "religious" studies. In schools funded by the parents and a church, they do include classes on the religion of that church. Nor does America pretend that only Christianity/Catholisism with perhaps Islam are the only religions. In a "Religious Studies" class offering in highschool, a student will be presented with Christianity, Islam, Jeudism, Buddhism, and generally at least anamistic "religions" as well. Maybe america is better at some things after all.

Funny i have a few German friends that are struggling to get enough work as teachers or professors to make a living. I know its not easy for them to get fired, but that doesnt mean that they can make enough money. Maybe that is just at the university level?

 

____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.

 

Occasional Poster




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Registered: 14/7/2004
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  posted on 21/7/2004 at 05:50 AM
@callei: uhm... maybe they get no job, because of unwanted suibject combinations or because they are too old?
uhm... you missed a point that i mentioned...
the state doesn't say that there's only Catholic, Prostestant and evt. Islam religion.
You could choose ethics if you are not interested in those mentioned...
the three mentioned are thaught at school because the demographics suggest it...

You can make a good living as a teacher here, if you are NOT just a elementary teacher or a teacher for "Sonderschulen"...

 

Extreme Fanatic




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  posted on 21/7/2004 at 06:36 AM
bane: age has nothing to do with anything...
and demographics is a flawed way to look at things... they take numbers only from the "organised religions without taking into account that there are many MANY independent religious practitioners and religions that don't have a way to poll themselves... besides... why only teach what people are... that is a bit like teaching an art class and ignoring the impressionists, or a philosophy class adn ignoring the relativists

 

____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.





Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist

 
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