Subject: Sex workers, prostitution, and the other little things in the same boat.
Anya
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Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 18/4/2004 at 04:23 PM
The article that Shade linked in the notes brought up an interesting topic
to discuss in the political world. I really want to get as many views as I
can concerning prostitution and sex workers. How do you feel when you hear
the word 'prostitute'? Do you think that it would be okay to legalise
prostitution, assuming that health regulations were enforced? If this was
to happen, would you be taking advantage of the new system? Why or why
not? There's likely other questions I have left out, but you are all
intelligent people so I will leave the extra information up to you.
That was probably Shade... (he posted the same link in the talkbox...)
I don't know... I think that regulating the business would reduce the
not-so-fun aspects, such as STDs, abusive pimps, and stuff like that.
But...
I don't know if it'd be morally right... I mean, selling your body? I don't
like the idea of being able to buy sex. The relationship behind the sex
means more to me than money can buy...
____________________ Piggy's got the Conch!
Shade
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Posts: 289 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 19/4/2004 at 09:42 AM
I think that legalizing prostitution would be a good idea, morality is a
created construct of the society in which we live, and those morals need to
evolve with the society in order to still be valid and with the success of
the porn industry on the internet where people can basically by a
prostitute anonymously, it is time to admit that people are willing to
accept sex as a part of their lives. If we stop stigmatizing sex as a
society, we;d have a lot fewer uptight people.
As far as selling one's body being morally right, how is it any different
from a nude model who literally sells their body for artistic purposes, or
any number of jobs where you sell your body in slices of time. I think the
fine line that has been drawn is between selling your body, which is
perfectly legal (I know there have been many times when my body has come to
work, but my mind has stayed at home having sex, eating, or just sleeping
in a little later) and selling your genitls which is, for the moment still
frowned on in so many ways it boggles the mind.
____________________ It is only through the lack of sex that humanity derives the need for an
all encompassing blind love. And in that moment of extreme horniness with
no relief in sight, in that moment can be found the birth of religion.
-Me
Zero
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Posts: 459 Registered: 15/2/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 19/4/2004 at 10:14 AM
i really do like the idea of legalizing prostitution but only for the
wellfare of the women that do it...
i wouldn't, personally, take advantage of the "opportunity" to buy sex
mainly because....why should i pay for something i can get for free??...or
at least for the price of some sort of an alcoholic beverage.
[Edited on 19/4/2004 by Zero]
____________________ "It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak." ~
The Sandman, Dream Country
selling is legal... fucking is legal... selling fucking is not legal... it
is illegal to sell soething you can give away (orgasms)
there is nothing immoral about it... is is just another service...
victimless crimes should not be crimes at all
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Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
Ironboots
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Posts: 893 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 19/4/2004 at 11:31 AM
"I think the fine line that has been drawn is between selling your body,
which is perfectly legal (I know there have been many times when my body
has come to work, but my mind has stayed at home having sex, eating, or
just sleeping in a little later) and selling your genitls which is, for the
moment still frowned on in so many ways it boggles the mind."
Ah, you got me there, Shade...
Of course, I don't agree with the current industrial paradigm of work
anyways...
____________________ Piggy's got the Conch!
dead-cell
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posted on 19/4/2004 at 01:46 PM
It is said prostitution is the oldest profession in the world. So why not
legalize it? People through out history have always been will to sell their
bodies. The main thing to keep in mind is if people are willing to pay,
there will be people willing to sell. Legalized prostitution in other
parts of the world stemmed the tide of STD's and HIV, better health care,
more rights for prostitutes, and of course lowered criminal activity. Its
something high society doesn’t like to admit to, but prostitution will
always be the cockroach that never goes away.
____________________ co-worker: "Your gay!?"
myself: "Didn't you see my rainbow pin?"
co-worker: "I just thought you liked skettles."
-(yes, it actually happened to me)
Anya
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Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 19/4/2004 at 02:40 PM
I thought that I'd get everyone's responses before adding my own. I must
say that I enjoyed reading what everyone had to say on the subject.
Well, the idea of a "sex worker" is not a bad idea to me. If you ask me,
it's another step to removing the outlaw badge from prostitution. On top
of that, assuming that there are special regulations and tests that each
sex worker (or prostitution in the future) go through, it would not be a
bad idea to have such business around. See, my personal problem with
prostitution as a business is the fact that it's underground (and
dangerous). There used to be a place *forgot the name* in Las Vegas that
actually had special regulations and tests that the prostitutes went for to
assure that the job is done safely for all parties involved.
As far as personal preferences go, I do not understand the rationale of
selling your body. I look at the body as a sacred thing and would not let
just anyone touch mine. For anyone else wanting to sell their body around,
however, I am indifferent to them and take the "each to their own" route.
Just at the moment, I couldn't condone prostitution mainly due to the
dangers of it right now - perhaps if there were safe steps to legalisation,
then I would not mind as much.
The only other thing I would have against prostitution is the sheer fact
that there are many women who are forced into the business. For instance,
there are some poor families in the Asian continent that sell their
daughters so that they can make money off of them - their daughters do not
want to be prostitutes, but they are forced to. I almost feel for those
girls. Otherwise, if a girl wants to sell her body around, then I guess
it's her gain or loss..heh.
I would not take advantage of the new system for I do not think it'd be
worth the money and I would likely be happily married before it happens.
[Edited on 4/19/2004 by Anya]
Ironboots
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Posts: 893 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 20/4/2004 at 08:43 AM
The bunny ranch you're talking about isn't in Las Vegas. The city has a law
prohibiting it. But once you get outside city limits, the bordellos line
the highways in all directions...
My uncle lives there and he's always complaining that the prudes in
government keep trying to ban prostitution...
They had a great documentary on HBO about the bunny ranch, it was very very
interesting.
I wouldn't sell my body if it was legal, and I wouldn't go buy a prostitute
if it was legal, but if a vote ever came up about the subject I'd vote for
it. I don't see anything wrong with it, and just like drugs, you can
throw as many people in jail as you want, fine as many people as you want,
and scream against it all you want, but it is never EVER EVER going to go
away. So why not make it a safe, legal, and legitimate taxable income? If
it's legalised, you'd still find the "troubled child" element, yes, but
it's there right now and the fact that it's illegal will only add to the
troubled element in their life. Make it legal and safe, if not for the
customers than for the men and women in the industry. It's supply and
demand, kids, and there's always been plenty of both in human history.
Think about it. It's legal to pay two people (or as many as the script
calls for) to have sex on camera, and legal to then sell the video of those
people having sex, and legal to BUY a tape or dvd of people having sex and
watch it, and it's legal to purchase, watch, and wank ALONG with the
people having sex on a tape you paid for, but not pay for the actual act
itself. Anyone else struck as this being extremely wierd?
People sell their bodies every single day. Models sell their bodies and
their faces and a fantasy, actors sell their bodies and faces and make a
living off fantasy, strippers, dominatrixes do too. So do everyday working
people. You work retail you go to work looking as nice or cool as you can
so that people will want to give you their money for goods. Hell I worked
near a military base in a mall and every military payday (sorry to you
service men out there, it's true) all us retail ladies would put their
typically favorite merchandise front forward, dig the skirt out of the
closet, and "whore it up" a little, because from previous experience the
military guys in the area bought more when you wore a skirt. Is that
selling yourself indirectly? Absolutely. Is it legal? Absolutely.
____________________ Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
Schizo
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 897 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 21/4/2004 at 02:10 AM
Oh, prostitution is legal, alright. It's just called marrying for money.
Look at Anna Nicole Smith. You don't seriously think she fell in love with
that geezer, or that he was interested in her brilliant mind and
personality? Oh no. It was an arrangement where she could spend his
ka-ching ka-ching while he played with her ba-donk-a-donk. And it was
perfectly legal.
You can prostitute yourself all you want, as long as you shack up with the
dude, and pretend it's something else. After all, we're a nation of family
values, aren't we?
____________________ "You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of
girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"
angel_of_death
Member
Posts: 119 Registered: 4/4/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 21/4/2004 at 03:50 AM
AMEN SCHIZO, AMEN!!!! i fully 100% agree, and love the fact its legal... i
admire those women who are smart enough to doup a man out of his cash. it
is a sham, but if he is stupit enough to beleive it... and is asking for
such a small thing in return for all that money... who are we as females to
stand in the way! i love your thinking schizo, love it! ( i hope one day
to marry rich)
____________________ I know whats it like to want to die, how it hurts to smile, how you try to
fit in but you can't, how you hurt yourself on the outside, to try to kill
the pain in the inside.
callei
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Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 21/4/2004 at 07:39 AM
usually no one is "conning" anyone in those marriages. that is what trophy
wives are all about. men go looking for them, trophy wives, call girls, and
crack whores alike. In a way its sort of sweet.
the men know that the skills that the woman has (be it deep throating or
decorating) are valuable and are willing to pay for those skills. and price
is how this society values something, so handing her, or giving her control
of, lots of cash is showing deep appriciation of her skills.
And marriage, legally, isnt about love; its about money and babies. He buys
access to your bed, your cooking, your graces. IF he doesnt come thru (low
sperm count, using up his sperm somewhere else, being a dickhead, or being
a wastrel) you can dump him and get a new one.
The women that work the brothels in Nevada (and there are lots of them)
make between 100-800 an hour. Just stop and think about that. Both (or
more) parties are getting something they want (great memories, good sex, to
try something new, money, to be kind to someone etc) and she is making as
much as a high level executive.
____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.
Zero
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Posts: 459 Registered: 15/2/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 21/4/2004 at 08:49 AM
( i know this may sound cynical or like i'm mad or whatever but this is
just for the sake of discussion, really.)
Do you guys really believe that legalization of prostitution would really
change everything that much? Truth is there will still be bad
“johns” and streetwalkers no matter what happens… The
business will always be corrupted by drugs and violence …it may be
just a little safer but not at all much of a big difference, “ladies
of the night” will still continue to “disappear” without
a trace. Oh, and personally i beleive that sex will always be a taboo
subject in America even if things like prostitution is legalized.
the only change i can see is that no one will be arrested for getting a
B.J. for about the cost of playstation video game. also infidelity would be
on the rise...even though i know that there's alot of you that really don't
see infedelity as a problem.
(this is not said with any anger…it is just a statement, I am not
attacking anyone)
____________________ "It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak."
~
The Sandman, Dream Country
Anya
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 21/4/2004 at 06:44 PM
As disgusting as the reality of marriages are, I have to agree with Callei
on this. Sure you should love the person you marry, but as I mentioned in
one of these threads before, a long-term marriage isn't based on love -
it's based on work and financial stability. There's going to be many
people that you will grow to love, but many of those people are not going
to be proper marriage partners for you.
Zero, same with the drug problem, the issues ALREADY exist, all your doing
is limiting the damage to the parties involved in rather "harmless" acts
that they would be doing anyway. If someone is going to cheat, they're
going to cheat. If someone wants to do drugs, they'll find drugs. They'll
either pick up someone at a bar for the price of a pitcher of beer or find
the local bordello and pick one up for a hell of a lot more money. They're
more likely to find trouble and disease with the pitcher of beer partner
than they are a liscenced and regulated individual in a work enviroment.
And the liscenced regulated worker isn't as likely to call and harass you
at home where your family is, nor likely to show up pregnant and wanting
you in their life, and your family out of yours, after a one night stand.
Infidelity won't skyrocket, and honestly who's problem is that? The sex
worker or the person that refuses to leave or deal with an unhappy
relationship and goes to the sex worker in secret? Where is the personal
responsibility on behalf of the "cheater"? Are we to believe that the
human mind is so weak and venerable that by simply legalising a profession
that already exists will result in a mad rush to the hooker's crib? That
husbands and wives will leave their spouses en masse simply because they
won't get "busted"? If the only reason that these people don't cheat on
their spouses with a professional is a fear of jail or getting caught, then
what does that say about their relationship to begin with? Prostitution
won't change the fact that there are people with infedelity on their minds,
people with open relationships, and people who'd rather pay a professional
than spend a night trying to convince a drunk frat girl to take her pants
off. It just makes the transaction legal, as it should be.
____________________ Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
Merry_Widow
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Posts: 598 Registered: 24/8/2002 Status: Offline
posted on 21/4/2004 at 11:15 PM
Okay, Zero, you brought it up. What is your definition of infedelity?
Oh, and zero I wasn't yelling at you. I just don't believe in protecting
people from themselves, it frees up their responsibility to the situations
they creat for themselves. It's like people who want to sue fast food
joints for making them fat, or people who smoke who blame the cigarette
industry for emphysema (i'm sorry, but if you don't know smoking will kill
by now you then your head is up your butt.)
Dog will hunt, junkies will shoot up, and if a spouse is going to cheat,
they're going to cheat. Fortunately I didn't marry a guy who'd do that to
me, and I'd rather cut out my eyeballs than do that to HIM.
[Edited on 4/22/2004 by bettie_x]
____________________ Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
Zero
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Posts: 459 Registered: 15/2/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 22/4/2004 at 09:30 AM
ok, i figured this much would happen when i mentioned infidelity, but i
really mentioned that as a joke...btw, living in NC our jobs come from the
tobacco industry so i'm all for smoking... i'm just against cancer....
ok, infidelity only occures when two(or more) people have agreed on having
a monogamous relationship between those individuals in the
relationship...does that sound right??
ok maybe this then...two people agree to have sex (i'm sure i'm gonna have
to explain what kind of sex i mean) only with each other and no one
else.... when one cheats ...that's infidelity...
oh and bettie i didn't take your comments as yelling...i just feel that i
have to put warnings on my posts so that no one gets the wrong idea of
where i'm comming from.
btw, i could see a drop in the spread of std's...but still i bet that the
product sold on the streets (much like burned CD's) will still be sold
cheaply...you know for the guy on a budget...and i'm sure that these
hypothetical bordellos would start to turn away certain girls...thus these
same girls will still end up on the streets selling themselves...and would
still be beaten and abused...i figure it will be safe for some but the rest
will just have to deal.
(someone had to take the other side....otherwise there would be no real
discussion)
____________________ "It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will
speak."
~