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Domkitten
Fanatic   Posts: 470 Registered: 23/9/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 11/8/2003 at 10:16 PM |
Being a teenager is difficult enough. Being a gay teenager is definitely
harder on a person both psychologically and socially, but a gay high
school? No, I’m sorry I’m opposed.
First of all it’s going to be harder on the kids who are gay who
don’t have the opportunity to go to this school. Now the bullies can
feel a little justified about wanting these strange queers out of there
school. “Why don’t you get on a bus and go to Faggot
High”, and oddly, New York would be supporting them.
By segregating out students in high school as being different enough to
merit their own private institution you are seriously setting back the
equal rights movement. Separate but equal does not work. Putting students
together based on their sexuality will be about as effective as grouping
them together based on color. It’s segregation, plain and simple.
Also, what will be the criteria for entrance? Will students who are
suspected of being gay be forced to go? Will this school only be for openly
gay students? Another question, many teenagers are already horribly
confused about their own sexuality, does it help these students, some who
will be as young as fourteen to forced them to decide if they are gay or
not? Realistically it could only deepen the problem of acceptance that many
of these students already have.
Also, will the parents of the students be informed if their child has asked
to go to a gay high school? Are the teachers or the administration just
going to pick and choose who goes with or without consent?
Then, you have other issues, are the teachers going to be gay, is the staff
going to be gay? Is there a gay way to teach math and science that will be
more effective then the straight way, or less effective?
One of the goals for this school is that it will teach students respect for
diversity. I think one of the many things a gay student has going for them
is an ability to appreciate difference. Wouldn’t respect and
diversity classes be better for the straight bullying thug?
I think this is probably one of the worst idea’s I’ve heard of
in a long time. I hope it doesn’t make it.
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/gayschool030728
.html
____________________
It's like kegel exercises for your throat.~Monolycus
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Psychopixi
Fanatic  Posts: 376 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 12/8/2003 at 04:33 AM |
Oh hell, that's effing laughable. That's may be designed to stop the kids
from havign to worry about being beaten up for being gay, but what it'll
probably do is send them a message saying "You're different, and that's
bad! You have to go to a *special* school for people like you." Ugh. And
what about the straight kids in the "normal" highschools? How are they
going to react to it? To gay kids who're still in their highschool? "You
shouldn't be here! There's a special place for you, cause you're different
and we don't want you here."
Oh yeah, what a good idea guys. *congratulations* ____________________
Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life.
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Erishkigal
Member   Posts: 62 Registered: 5/10/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 12/8/2003 at 08:40 AM |
This reminds me slightly of the schools reserved for special kids. The
argument of some is that they should be allowed to mix, day-to-day, with
other children who are perfectly able rather than be segregated in a
separate school.
Except, gay kids don’t HAVE special needs. There is no reason whatsoever
that a school need be made for them. Are teachers that ineffective at
dealing with bullying etc that they found it easier just to remove all the
gay people and dump them elsewhere?… did they assume that, because they
were all the gay, the children would all get on better?
If a kid gets bullied because they’re a goth or whatever, it would be
totally ridiculous for them to move to a school just for goth children so
other people aren’t mean to them, rather than socialising with all sorts of
people and dealing with their problems and the idiots that make fun of them
like other people that are slightly different to the ‘average child’ do.
Since gay people have no different educational needs to a straight person,
all a gay school would essentially be is a social club for gays. Why that
needs to be mixed in with education, I don’t know. I just think its totally
unnecessary and would only make any existing divide between gay and
straight people even wider.
____________________
Let viagra bring the magic back.
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Psychopixi
Fanatic Posts: 376 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 12/8/2003 at 08:59 AM |
| "Let's put them all in a little bubble so they don't have to deal with the
real world." Until they get out of school that is, cause there'll still be
arseholes around then. ____________________
Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life.
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Shade
Fanatic  Posts: 289 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 12/8/2003 at 09:38 AM |
"Are teachers that ineffective at dealing with bullying etc that they found
it easier just to remove all the gay people and dump them elsewhere?… "
-Erishkigal
Yes, they are. Plain and simple it is safer to segregate gay children then
let them die.
"Is there a gay way to teach math and science that will be more effective
then the straight way, or less effective?" -Domkitten
What are you an idiot? They are not creating this school to somehow improve
the methods of teaching. They are creating this school to increase the
chances that these students will not die either by being either beaten,
gang-raped (male or female) to death, or by their own hand.
The school has been created with the same intention as special-ed
classes/schools, gifted and talented schools, private schools, boarding
schools, and public schools. To provide an education. In the case of a gay
campus, does that mean these kids are all going to be pasty faced wasps?
No, especially not in a major metropolitan area, you know, like New York?
The students will be exposed to cultural diversity just like any student,
they just won't be beaten into a pulp by said diversity. They won't die of
ruptured internal organs because the local jocks were making their point
with a broomstick and no lube, and they won't be forced to face the day in
day fucking out sniggering behind their backs that makes the strongest ego
crumble sometimes. ____________________
It is only through the lack of sex that humanity derives the need for an
all encompassing blind love. And in that moment of extreme horniness with
no relief in sight, in that moment can be found the birth of religion.
-Me
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VampCourt
Fanatic  Posts: 293 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 12/8/2003 at 09:39 AM |
Though the idea counts twards having a respect for gay people, I dont
think it helps them any at all. yah sure, they would be Put in a
enviroment where they would probly feel less threatened. (because lets face
it, in high school if your even the slightest bit diffrent you got picked
on and made fun of) But i dont think it teaches them anything about
standing up for yourself. Then, when they set forth on reality time zones,
then they get a harsh harsh awakening. and Also too, i would also like to
state that when you are a teenager, you dont always know right away if you
are gay or not (hell i questioned myself many a time) and theres always the
factor, that yah, you could say, Hey! im gay! put me in a gay high school!
and then not end up being in the end. thus going to a special school under
false pretences. When your 16, im sorry, but you dont have a fucking clue
who the hell you are.. what kind of adult would think to have a school made
up for students, a high school, people who are ever changing and highly
influenced by EVERYTHING, to make them set in ther mind frame that YES. IM
GAY. I HAVE TO STICK TO THIS CONCEPT TO ATTEND THIS SCHOOL. MUST OBEY. it
just doesnt make sense to me.
and yes i do know that there are indeed teenagers who -do- in fact come to
terms with themselves and -KNOW- they are lesbian and homosexual.. but im
just thinking of all the others that dont know that for sure...
[Edited on 8/12/2003 by VampCourt] ____________________
"Thou shalt not be afraid of the dark, nor of graveyards nor ghosts nor the
devil, for thou art scarey and mean." -The Goth commandments
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Dolorosa
Extreme Fanatic   Posts: 856 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 12/8/2003 at 01:25 PM |
Hell...if I had a problem with gay folks and whatnot, I'd be a hell of a
lot more blatant about it...
Thats just...well...amazingly silly. A recipe for disaster on one hand,
and an excercise in oblvious retardation on another...blech.
Gay kids should just go to normal school like everyone else anyhow. They
deserve to get picked on for everything they do and think, just like
everyone else. ____________________
In the valley of the Goats, the Goat Fucker is King
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Abbadon
Fanatic  Posts: 499 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 12/8/2003 at 05:20 PM |
| Surely single sex school were an attempt to segregate pupils on th basis of
their sexuality before homosexuality concieved. ____________________
Light is changing to shadow, and casting a shroud over all we have known.
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 12/8/2003 at 06:19 PM |
I don't think it's a good idea at all. A gay highschooler has as much
chance of being beaten up, killed, harassed, or be trodden to the point of
suicide as any other child that doesn't feel like they fit in or flat out
doesn't fit in. The skinny dorky kid, the overweight or unatractive girl,
the really slow child, the unusually gifted child, the wallflower or the
freak.
One reason I don't think it's a good idea are, as dom stated, the criteria?
Most teenagers are unsure of their sexuality (even if they dont' admit it)
until about half way through highhschool. Does the parent or the child
decide their identity or where they go to school? What if the child
decides the identity they've chosen or have had chosen for them doesn't
"work" anymore? And as also said, it opens a whole 'nother can of worms.
Hey fag go to the fag school, we have places for people like you, blah blah
blah. Agreed, separate but equal does not work.
I also don't believe that same sex schools are great, nor "special" schools
for the handicapped, unless their disability or special needs makes going
to regular school extremely difficult or impossible. In my highschool we
had several mental/physically handicapped students who yes, had classes
designed for them, but also had other classes on campus, ate at the same
lunches, attended the same functions. Oddly enough, in my bigoted,
backwater school they had peers, and friends, and those who wouldn't
ordinarly be caught DEAD with a "retard" (as they'd so eloquently put it
sometimes) were OFTEN seen helping them and befriending them.
The plight of a gay teen in higschool isn't falling on deaf ears, anymore
than the plight of racial issues hasn't, or developmentally disabled
hasn't. One very important part of highschool is learning socialization
with different types of people. There is pressure to fit in, bullies,
ignorant people, assholes, fuckwads, yes, but you'll find that
EVERYWHERE...clubs, work, family.
Opening an "all gay" highschool to me seems like a dangerous thing. It's
like drawing a line in the sand, or when you'd draw a line down the middle
of the bedroom and tell your stinky little brother to stay on his side.
It's not dealing or adressing a serious issue, it's making it an even
bigger, larger, scarier issue of separatism.
If they want to stop the violence in schools no matter WHAT the issue is
(gay/racial/sexual/social) then they need to better equip teachers to not
only deal, but correct the bullying and maybe even stop it in it's tracks.
By taking away the "issue" you're empowering the bully and cementing his
messed up mindset. It's letting the bully win by letting him have his
way.
I knew two kids in my school that committed suicide. Both were extremely
popular. Both had a lot of friends. Both had good families. Both were on
sports teams. Neither were picked on, nor had behavioral problems.
Both felt so helplessly and completely alone in their life that they
relinquished it. One by gun, one by train. I also knew about five gay
kids. They all got picked on, harassed, beat up. So did the skinny kids I
knew, the fat girls, the social rejects. They survived. I know that the
stats for gay teen suicide are high, but also take into effect that the
homosexual population is bout 10% (or so I've heard) in the US, so
naturally with a smaller group of people with a set rate of suicide, the %
is going to be higher.
The problem is cultural. The solution is education of sexuality and
compassion at an early age from both parents, and school. It's a long
shot, but I'd take education over separation any day. The easiest route
isn't always the best. ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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Merry_Widow
Fanatic  Posts: 598 Registered: 24/8/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 12/8/2003 at 06:43 PM |
| It's nice that they are trying to do something about bullying and all, but
this is another issue of singling out victims. I would rather see something
done about the bullies. Well this is another one of those good intentions
we have heard so much about, it is exceedingly problematic, for all the
above stated reasons. It's just too iffy to be executed cleanly. ____________________
Okay, dazzle me.
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AloneSoul
Fanatic  Posts: 522 Registered: 6/7/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 12/8/2003 at 07:34 PM |
I've heard of this before, segregated schools for those who choose to lead
a different "sexual" lifestyle.
I'm particularly torn about this. It will be helpful to those who want to
actually gain a education without fear of the "high-school witch hunt" as I
prefer to put it but it's like putting a band-aid on a broken leg. We're
not attacking the cause of this and I doubt we ever will.
Having a gay rights activist groups/parades and anti-gay defamation
commercials airing every so often on tv won't do much to fix the problem.
The parents have to start with their children when they're young, they have
to teach them acceptance of others. That's the basic premise of which unity
will be achieved through...
unfortunately, I don't see this happening soon. We’re stuck in a loop here.
Many have grown and will teach hatred to their kids unknowingly. What can
we do to make the lives of those who have a different sexual preference
easier and safer?
I don’t think isolation from the general public is the answer. Turning a
blind eye to someone who’s being fucking tortured by idiot boneheads isn’t
the answer either.
Also...this bugs me. If someone is gay or bisexual, why the hell should it
be the PUBLIC’s business? Just a offbeat though.
[Edited on 8/13/2003 by AloneSoul] ____________________
 but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living
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Monolycus
Fanatic  Posts: 580 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 13/8/2003 at 12:12 AM |
I'm also going to say that this is an incredibly stupid idea. It's
unnecessarily divisive, perpetuates intolerance ("stay with your own
kind!") and validates the homophobic notion that gays are somehow so
different that they should not be permitted to be around others (for their
own protection, of course). The doctrine of separate-but-equal was asinine
when it was based upon race, it is asinine to have all male or female
universities, and it is asinine to imagine that segregating people
(especially teenagers!) based upon their sexual preference is going to
promote anything but disharmony later in life.
Nobody is going to learn to get over their irrational prejudices if they
never come into contact with anyone who embodies anything different than
themselves. It is a disservice to homo- and heterosexuals to think that
one needs to be "protected" from the other. I'm sure that those who
support the prohibition against being openly gay in the military think they
are "protecting" people as well. Well, it looks like we will have another
generation of culturally-stunted xenophobics to deal with.
~M.
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Domkitten
Fanatic Posts: 470 Registered: 23/9/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 13/8/2003 at 02:43 AM |
Shade: Having dealt with numerous small-minded idiots who disagreed with my
opinions I have no problem being a called, and or asked if I’m an
idiot. Thanks to my diverse public education I’ve learned to deal
with this, and many of the other nasty name calling aspects of life in the
real world.
As a professional educator it is a valid question. Are we to assume that
because students identify themselves as being gay that they will
automatically be at a certain educational level? I’m quite sure that
assuming that all l/g/t/bi teens have the same skill and ability set is at
least as much a disservice as placing them in this school. Students have
different educational needs and need to be educated according to those
needs, not to a difference in sexuality.
Also, you brought up some pretty horrific imagery to support your argument,
however it is also ineffective, and generally only tricky. One cannot
disagree that it is better for teens to go to school where they do not have
to face being beaten to death, gang raped, or forced to commit suicide. The
last time I checked however those sorts of things were not limited to gay
teens. Columbine, for example, resulted in the death of 15 people chosen at
random.
School violence and the people who perpetuate it don’t care if there
is an basis for a claim that they use to hurt someone. It’s not
necessary to justify their actions. They are justified simply by their
feeling of superiority and their will to inflict it on whomever they see as
being weaker, or lesser. Students need not be gay to experience that.
Students can be Goth, underweight, overweight, quiet, shy, Black, Asian,
Latino, blonde, girly, boyish or named Ed, and be just as much a target for
that kind of abuse. Are we to make schools equally for all those students
as well, to protect them from the bullies?
Gay students are not the only students that become suicidal from the
pressures of bullies. Bullies are equal opportunity abusers. They
don’t care about discrimination in the long term, so why should we
help them along by making justifications for them.
One could argue that we should make schools for the bullies, but we already
have those. They are called Juvenile Detention Centers and I’m pretty
sure they are about as effective helping those teens adjust, as a gay
school will be.
And, the only case that comes to mind that fits exactly the scene you
described was not that of a gay teen. The man who was violently beaten and
sodomized was named Abner Louima, and his attacker was not a teen bully,
but a police officer, one of those who are supposed to serve and protect.
And finally, you may want to throw the name of Brandon Tina into this
argument, but having been in a gay school would not have saved
Brandon’s life. Having had an educated police force that recognized
his needs, or a society that was willing to accept social variations would
have been more effective than publicly declaring she was different, and
therefore, somehow needed to be isolated.
No, I say let the bullies work on their own time. If we really want to
create change we cannot feed into the systems beliefs that seperate but
equal is better. That is a very dangerous route to take for equal, and safe
treatment.
____________________
It's like kegel exercises for your throat.~Monolycus
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Shade
Fanatic Posts: 289 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 13/8/2003 at 07:09 AM |
OK, *takes deep breath* the examples I brought up were intentionally
graphic to drive home the nature of the extremes of what is happening, and
on average these examples do not make more than a blip on the local news.
It is still frowned on in most cases to report hate crimes against those
who are not straight. In terms of Brandon Tina, my personal take on things
is that it would have done her a lot of good to be in Harvie Milk (that the
name of the school in question) however I am saying that because that would
also imply her not having been in a small town which I still hold to be the
leading cause of death among people who just-don't-fit-in(TM).
As far as calling you an idiot Dk, that was my impression wen I read the
quote when it was made by New York Conservative Party Chairman Mike Long, I
was responding directly to your echoing his words.
In terms of the school itself, it's not incredibly hard in this era of
digitized information to answer most of the questions that have been asked
in this forum. First go to news.google.com and type in {"New York" gay
school"} without the braces of course, and then read a few of the articles
until it mentions the name of the intended school (Harvie Milk) and then do
another quick search at www.google.com so that you find the school itself
and the Hetrick-Martin Institute at www.HMI.org. OK, now that you have
found it, let's address some of the intense issues that have been brought
up.
And I am going to get personal here for some reason that will be
immediately obvious. First off, I attended a school with a similar
enrollment set-up, the basics are sign up, get on the waiting list, start
attending. It's like a private school, or any other kind of school that is
not the one set up by the state that will take anyone in their sector that
is not enrolled in an alternative form of education. Harvie Milk High
School does not discriminate based on sexuality, but they are publicizing
the fact that they are queer friendly school in order to make it clear that
gay bashing will not be tolerated in their school.
In reality, any child who is questioning their sexuality does have special
needs, just like any child who is a genius, or an autist, or in any way
different from their peers. This includes everyone. Everyone is different
in some way, that is why we tend towards clique behavior and smaller social
groups within a huge social setting. We find those people with whom we
share traits and bond to them in order to have a sense of community. Now in
the case of a Lesbian, Gay, Bi-sexual, Transgender, Transvestite or just
questioning teenager, these kids need someone who can actually answer their
questions realistically, not just the advice of their local religious
leader who will (most likely) tell them it's wrong, or; conversely the
advice of that slightly older slightly cooler classmate who's words will
have an amazing impact, but will not be backed by any experience.
The school in question is not looking for some special "gay" way to teach,
now is it claiming there is "gay math" whatever the hell that is. ANd as
for the assertion that gay kids shouldn't be treated differently? Again,
why not? Or to be more specific, what is so wrong with the difference being
positive and welcoming as opposed to bigoted and uninformed? Gay (blanket
term for brevity's sake) kids are going to be treated differently no matter
what anyone says or does. Why shouldn't they have a learning environment in
which they can learn? Why, for 8 hours of the day, shouldn't they be
treated as normal with the exception of being in what is esentially a
really cheap private school?
No one is being forced to go to Harvie Milk High School, it's a voluntary
entrance for anyone of any orientation of high school age. If someone
thinks they are gay and goes there and then realizes they are straight,
they will not be kicked out, but they will have had the support and the
educated counseling to help them find out for themselves.
The implication, by saying that this school is wrong, is that these kids
have no right to choose a safe and sane learning environment based on a
major aspect of their lives. In saying that, the speaker is denying these
children the basic right shared by children of catholic families, rich
families, jewish families, Xian families, and a few others as well. You are
also denying gay kids the right that hyper-intelligent children,
developmentally challenged children, artistically gifted children and the
children of diplomats have. That is the right to go to a private school
where they are guaranteed an education that is sensitive to their
cultural/religious/other background. And you are denying gay kids that
right based on their sexual orientation. Is that really the position you
want to take? ____________________
It is only through the lack of sex that humanity derives the need for an
all encompassing blind love. And in that moment of extreme horniness
with
no relief in sight, in that moment can be found the birth of
religion.
/>
-Me
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Xaoswolf
Fanatic  Posts: 463 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 13/8/2003 at 09:47 AM |
A Gay Highschool is a wonderful thing. I mean, think about it, it is
showing that the Civil Rights Movement is finally working.
I mean, Soon we can have the Gays, Blacks, Latinos, or any other minority
eating in their own cafeterias, going to their own schools, living in their
own dorms. It's everything that the Good Mr. King wanted.
Wait, no it isn't...
Can someone tell me why today's "civil rights" leaders are trying to bring
segregation back? ____________________
Sometimes I dream about dinosaurs shopping for cargo shorts at the Gap.
Does that make me a bad person?
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Anonymous
 Posts: 116 Registered: 14/4/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 13/8/2003 at 10:11 AM |
Ok, I’ve been going back and forth on this issue, and I’m not sure exactly
where I stand. (mostly I’m stuck between should this be publicly or
privately funded?)
Anyway, I just wanted to go over a few things.
First, I think likening this to all-out segregation isn’t exactly accurate.
As shade pointed out, this school is OPTIONAL for gay kids, and obviously
they do not have to prove they are gay, and in fact straight kids would be
able to enroll as well. I was sort of looking at this like an alternative
school, and plenty of those exist. Schools for kids who, for whatever
reason, need an alternative environment – does anyone have a problem with
those types of schools? A school for kids who would ordinarily drop out of
a “normal” high school?
We have schools for troubled kids, smart kids, pregnant teens, teen-age
mothers. Where I live there are schools targeted toward Native American
students. I don’t think any of these qualify as that dirty nasty word
“segregation;” I think of it as offering a space for kids who need such a
space.
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ickgirl
Member  Posts: 99 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 13/8/2003 at 10:12 AM |
CRAP
that was ME!
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 13/8/2003 at 12:14 PM |
Okay, I don't think that it's WRONG to have a gay sensitive school, I
simply think that tho the intentions behind it are good, I don't think it's
going to fix anything. As an affordable private school, ya sure, knock
yourselves out, and if it works then a big huzzah for them for making a
difference. My main problem lies in the issue that it's not DEALING with
the overall problem, which is bullying and intolerance against anyone,
which is, in this case, homosexual teenagers. These kids dealing with
intolerance are going to grow into adults that are going to have to deal
with intolerance, and that is one of the hard lessons of being a teenager
and finding out who you are. It's a life lesson. I learned some hard
social lessons in school. Fat girls get teased. Girls that wear too much
makeup or wierd clothes get beat up. Girls that hang out with the
handicapped, gay, racial minority, or other "different" kids get called fag
lovers, nigger lovers, dykes, and get left out of dances, parties, and
other "important" things highschoolers do. They get told "I hope you die"
and "you're worthless" every day, even by the administration.
I had just as many horrible bullies (as I'm sure some of us have) as anyone
else that was "different", and if there was a special place for me to go, I
probably would have RUN there, but it wouldn't have fixed my problems, it
wouldn't have taught me to be who I am today, someone who knows to not take
any shit from anyone, knows where to pick my battles, and knows how to
cope.
And I do agree with you, shade, that since there are private schools based
on religion, gender, behavior, and special needs, then there should be one
available for gay teens. I, however, don't think that ANY of those are
good ideas.
It IS like putting a bandaid on a wound when a tourniquet is called for.
It may give a feeling of comfort, but eventually you bleed to death.
Instead of creating one school, elective or not, that is compassionate and
finally says "no" to bullies (a word they are not accustomed to hearing),
why not impliment that in EVERY school, small town, big town, inbetween?
It's more time consuming, slow, difficult, and maybe even costly, but what
are the payoffs? Kids leaving that school to grow up and perhaps be even
SLIGHTLY more compassionate, educated, and understanding adults which is
DEFINITELY what this world needs. ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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Dolorosa
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 856 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 13/8/2003 at 04:43 PM |
Wait...what kind of Mascot would a Gay High School have?
Go Ambiguous Unicorns!!
heh heh... ____________________
In the valley of the Goats, the Goat Fucker is King
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 13/8/2003 at 11:53 PM |
| good greif *lol* Please, no unicorns, I just couldn't handle that.....Well
maybe I could, as long as they're not Lisa Frank unicorns. I hate that
girl. ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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