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bitch-piegon
Coward Posts: 4 Registered: 31/5/2004 Status: Offline
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posted on 31/5/2004 at 09:47 AM |
Personally I don't think you have to dress goth all the time to be goth .
In my heart
and mind I think this is where we all hold our true goth way. Alot of
people would say you have to dress the piece and the music and blah blah
blah. I don't dress goth all the time but when I do to me it feels that
much better. I especially love whereing the cat eye contacts personal fav . ____________________ Can't take the heat get out of the kitchen. |
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littlegothgirlthatcould
Member Posts: 100 Registered: 13/2/2007 Status: Offline
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posted on 4/2/2008 at 11:36 AM |
thats Very true.
A way of life, not particularly a way of dress. ____________________ [[Ive learned too many things to let life pass me by now. Ive grown up and
learned my lessons, this is the beginning of the future]] |
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Passenger
Occasional Poster Posts: 20 Registered: 2/2/2008 Status: Offline
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posted on 2/2/2008 at 07:37 PM |
I think goth should have substance, I don't really like the vagueness of
it, It kind of needs a makeover, I mean vagueness is good to some
degree,but not when you have to grab imaginary potatoes out of the air. No
I don't think you have to dress the part. Basically anyone is goth at this
point in time, unless the old goth become evil and eat them for breakfast.
May I ask what kind of Attitude goth has?
Goth is undefinable, no limits, and no leaders,
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littlegothgirlthatcould
Member Posts: 100 Registered: 13/2/2007 Status: Offline
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posted on 1/2/2008 at 12:40 PM |
I would like to know how it when from being about Goth to recipies....
either Im confused, or didn't read well enough ____________________ [[Ive learned too many things to let life pass me by now. Ive grown up
and
learned my lessons, this is the beginning of the future]] |
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littlegothgirlthatcould
Member Posts: 100 Registered: 13/2/2007 Status: Offline
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posted on 13/1/2008 at 07:40 PM |
quote: you are reading, and
expecting my words to have a hidden meaning...I say what I mean...exactly
what I mean and nothing more or nothing less... simply take them at face
value...
and again, People do need to learn, just to accept what he says, and to
listen to what he acctually means.
Although this is an old thread... I just felt like Commenting ____________________ [[Ive learned too many things to let life pass me by now. Ive grown up
and
learned my lessons, this is the beginning of the future]] |
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littlegothgirlthatcould
Member Posts: 100 Registered: 13/2/2007 Status: Offline
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posted on 13/1/2008 at 07:38 PM |
quote: "My personal beliefs
suggest that as the human race, nobody is unique."
No offense... but I pity you then... everyone is a compilation of their
genes, completely unique in that respect. Each person has a unique sets of
memory engrams... completely unique in that respect. You even contain a
unique number of atoms, meaning that your quantum frequency is unique to
you. We also have a unique magnetic/gamma pattern in our brains...
Completely unique retinal patterns...we are all similar, but we are all
unique
"when confronted by the ulterior truth we all know, for example, we all
know we'll die someday. Do you want to die?"
I believe you meant ultimate... not ulterior truth... I've been dead for 15
minutes. I've been shot... i have terminated another human life. I have no
fear of death as I have left nothing undone... I have very few regrets...
As a creature of instinct, I have very little wish to die, and I will fight
to avoid that inevitability...
"People like Goths and Punks, for example and in the general
understanding of the mass, act as warning beacons, by instilling moral
ideals into children-don't do your homework, and you'll end up like that
bum, or that creepy goth chick or that guy with the blue hair sniffing glue
under the bridge!"
you speak as if you see me as something else... I still wear my hair in a
wide mohawk... I have thousands of dollars of ink, and I remember when
goths were nothing more than punks...
"I know. Hence why I think anarchy and nihilism can never exist."
On the contrary... Society has little to do with government...
Nihilism:total rejection of established laws and institutions
Anarchy: a theory that regards the absence of all direct or coercive
government as a political ideal and that proposes the cooperative and
voluntary association of individuals and groups as the principal mode of
organized society.
society does not preclude anarchy or nihilism...
"What about you? Don't you belong to any culture?" never denied
being part of a culture... but I am not claiming to be goth... and we are
discussing gothic stereotypes here...
"If I'm wasting my time, then so be it-however if I learn just one thing
on my séjour here, it will have been all worth it." No offense... why
is it when anyone comes here, and they encounter any kinds of resistance to
their thoughts... they assume the worst? It's called debate... and
communing with people that are not of the same exact thought patterns as
you stimulates healthy thought and discourse...
He is such a smart man, God, I respect him so much.
With a large part of my life. ____________________ [[Ive learned too many things to let life pass me by now. Ive grown
up
/>
and
learned my lessons, this is the beginning of the future]] |
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callei
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 22/12/2007 at 07:40 AM |
If anyone here has a question about WIG then check out the list of "types
of goth" Bettie X made (and let me help) and the lexicon de Gothique. If
you still dont get what got this, check out the historical articles on this
site that go into the history of the word, the externally and internally
applied labels of non-conformists over the last 1200 years of Western
so-called civilization, and then shut the fuck up.
If you have to wonder if you are goth, then you aren't, if you dont care
then you might be. If you claim you are loudly to everyone, then you are a
fool. ____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away. |
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Schizo
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 897 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 1/12/2007 at 12:58 PM |
The question is not WIG (what is goth?) but WDIM (why does it matter?)
Only reason I ever use the word to describe myself is in a quickie
self-description... thus - "I've got kind of a goth streak." That gives
whoever I'm talking to the basic idea that I've got a fondness for "dark"
or "spooky" things without putting myself into a box whose boundaries
anyone can define for themselves. Because what Feral says is true - there
is no concrete definition for the word "goth" as it applies to the
sub-culture. Which is why it gets debated endlessly. Do you think I'm
goth? Do you think you're goth? Do I think I'm goth? Do I think you're
goth? Do we think they're goth or do they think we're goth? Who the fuck
knows and who the fuck who's worth a fuck cares.
I, however, am goth as fuck. How is that different? Beats me, but it is. ____________________ "You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of
girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism" |
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 25/11/2007 at 04:01 AM |
you are reading, and expecting my words to have a hidden meaning...I say
what I mean...exactly what I mean and nothing more or nothing less...
simply take them at face value... ____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist |
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Sorrow
Occasional Poster Posts: 18 Registered: 21/11/2007 Status: Offline
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posted on 24/11/2007 at 10:56 PM |
I have chocobos swirling round me noggin' now.
I did re-read your post, and I don't see what conclusion I'm supposed to
make, when you and I were the ones debating recently, within this
thread.
I think it's your manner of speech that confuses me. Don't take it as an
offense or anything, I just don't get it. Well kay it's fine lol. Id you
could be more direct though, I might stop making an ass of myself. |
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 24/11/2007 at 10:39 PM |
you are jumping to conclusions... re-read what I said...
do not assume every statement is directly aimed at you... and do not
assume... I would be far less subtle... ____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist |
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Sorrow
Occasional Poster Posts: 18 Registered: 21/11/2007 Status: Offline
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posted on 24/11/2007 at 09:19 PM |
I was never going to accuse you of bashing me-at all. No man, seriously, I
don't know where you're getting these ideas. I thought we were just having
a convo-yeah I'm kind of rude, but it doesn't mean anything.
quote: The opening statement
implies the information I responded to...
In case ya didn't notice, I was actually complimenting and commending your
intelligence-but hey, if you want to take it that way, that's cool too.
Again though, I'm easily able to have a mature discussion-I don't
understand this entire bashing thing. :/ Granted it's pretty pointless as
we won't agree-but it's still enlightening. |
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 24/11/2007 at 07:52 PM |
"Did I give such ideas?"
yes - you did...
"If I'm wasting my time, then so be it-however if I learn just one thing on
my séjour here, it will have been all worth it."
The opening statement implies the information I responded to...
I'll not respond point by point to your lat post, lest I be accused of
bashing... I respsect your point of view, but disagree on almost every
level... ____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist |
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Sorrow
Occasional Poster Posts: 18 Registered: 21/11/2007 Status: Offline
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posted on 24/11/2007 at 07:40 PM |
quote: No offense... but I
pity you then... everyone is a compilation of their genes, completely
unique in that respect. Each person has a unique sets of memory engrams...
completely unique in that respect. You even contain a unique number of
atoms, meaning that your quantum frequency is unique to you. We also have a
unique magnetic/gamma pattern in our brains... Completely unique retinal
patterns...we are all similar, but we are all unique
I don't mind being pitied. I like the attention.
Sure, I got my own memories and the like-which are unique to me, not to
mention the perception thereof, the actions and consequences which will be
derived from such, however it will lead me to the same place as anyone
else.
See, if you confront, I get scared, and such is an intrusion to my personal
safety, therefore I strike back with anger, eliminate your presence by
ending your life, and the obstacle to my safety is removed. Isn't that how
wars start? We've always had them, and it's not my atom structure or
frequency level that's going to change that. It's like you're saying all
snowflakes look different, which they do, but that they also all do a
different thing, which is false.
quote: I believe you meant
ultimate... not ulterior truth... I've been dead for 15 minutes. I've been
shot... i have terminated another human life. I have no fear of death as I
have left nothing undone... I have very few regrets... As a creature of
instinct, I have very little wish to die, and I will fight to avoid that
inevitability...
Ulterior because we all lie to ourselves with ideas of heaven, promised
lands or reincarnation. Conviction is strong. And in having no regrets, you
state that yet another delusion is weaving-I don't know what your life is
like, and it's not for me to judge your satisfaction or absence thereof,
but I wonder how people can imagine that they've done all they need to do
and regret nothing. There's always things you'll never know, experiences
that will never come your way, all these good things overshadowed by the
bad.
Otherwise, even our instinct would usher in death, when all is done. I
don't believe in fate or destiny, either.
quote: you speak as if you see
me as something else... I still wear my hair in a wide mohawk... I have
thousands of dollars of ink, and I remember when goths were nothing more
than punks...
Weren't you the one arguing that we were all unique? Other then that, I
don't see what that has to with the psychological aspect of the survival
instinct.
quote: On the contrary...
Society has little to do with government...
Nihilism:total rejection of established laws and institutions
Anarchy: a theory that regards the absence of all direct or coercive
government as a political ideal and that proposes the cooperative and
voluntary association of individuals and groups as the principal mode of
organized society.
society does not preclude anarchy or nihilism...
But it's the absence thereof. Say the world goes mental, and everyone does
what they want. I'm going to kill you-because I can. You, in order to
defend yourself, will team up with someone, and destroy me. When this is
done, you'll stay together to avoid similar circumstances, until you weave
yourself a pack of people willing to work together to survive the chaos.
That's like society, and so, there goes your anarchy.
We need laws, it's that simple, and with the abolition of such, we'll just
create new ones. I'm thinking that most speak of such subjects for the
shock value, but when really thinking about it, and the way we work as
humans, I don't see how the definition of such can actually exist.
Even Genghis Khan had laws. I agree, society has little to do with it,
because it's not the initial factor, only a product of what we are.
quote: No offense... why is it
when anyone comes here, and they encounter any kinds of resistance to their
thoughts... they assume the worst? It's called debate... and communing with
people that are not of the same exact thought patterns as you stimulates
healthy thought and discourse...
Did I give such ideas?-not at all. You said I might be wasting my time on
these forums, I said that if I learn something here, then it's worth it. I
don't get it.
I know what a debate is, and am not offended, insulted or what have you
with people not agreeing with me-I enjoy it, and certainly not doing it to
be right. If you agreed with me about everything I said, then I'd have
nothing to say, would I? Don't presume that I'm as dense as to have a fit
because we disagree. I'm immature, yes indeed-but I ain't retarded.
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 24/11/2007 at 06:28 PM |
"My personal beliefs suggest that as the human race, nobody is
unique."
No offense... but I pity you then... everyone is a compilation of their
genes, completely unique in that respect. Each person has a unique sets of
memory engrams... completely unique in that respect. You even contain a
unique number of atoms, meaning that your quantum frequency is unique to
you. We also have a unique magnetic/gamma pattern in our brains...
Completely unique retinal patterns...we are all similar, but we are all
unique
"when confronted by the ulterior truth we all know, for example, we all
know we'll die someday. Do you want to die?"
I believe you meant ultimate... not ulterior truth... I've been dead for 15
minutes. I've been shot... i have terminated another human life. I have no
fear of death as I have left nothing undone... I have very few regrets...
As a creature of instinct, I have very little wish to die, and I will fight
to avoid that inevitability...
"People like Goths and Punks, for example and in the general
understanding of the mass, act as warning beacons, by instilling moral
ideals into children-don't do your homework, and you'll end up like that
bum, or that creepy goth chick or that guy with the blue hair sniffing glue
under the bridge!"
you speak as if you see me as something else... I still wear my hair in a
wide mohawk... I have thousands of dollars of ink, and I remember when
goths were nothing more than punks...
"I know. Hence why I think anarchy and nihilism can never exist."
On the contrary... Society has little to do with government...
Nihilism:total rejection of established laws and institutions
Anarchy: a theory that regards the absence of all direct or coercive
government as a political ideal and that proposes the cooperative and
voluntary association of individuals and groups as the principal mode of
organized society.
society does not preclude anarchy or nihilism...
"What about you? Don't you belong to any culture?" never denied
being part of a culture... but I am not claiming to be goth... and we are
discussing gothic stereotypes here...
"If I'm wasting my time, then so be it-however if I learn just one thing
on my séjour here, it will have been all worth it." No offense... why
is it when anyone comes here, and they encounter any kinds of resistance to
their thoughts... they assume the worst? It's called debate... and
communing with people that are not of the same exact thought patterns as
you stimulates healthy thought and discourse... ____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
/>
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist |
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Sorrow
Occasional Poster Posts: 18 Registered: 21/11/2007 Status: Offline
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posted on 24/11/2007 at 03:56 PM |
quote: the problem with being
a non-conformist is that you... are unique... just like everyone else...
My personal beliefs suggest that as the human race, nobody is unique. I
don't know what the hell Darwinism is, but I sincerely believe that in 100
years, some of us will be pretty people with only four fingers and the rest
of us will turn into goblins.
The thing with that is, there are cultures and social structures all over
the world and there always have been; some, like in the East still live by
strict codes of honour, while over here we abide by morality; but in the
end, what we do and how we do it serves the sole purpose of maintaining our
race. A rainbow has many colours, but it all leads to the same place.
No matter the psychological thought process and the philosophical
transition thereof, we're pretty much all the same-as your dictionary
definition suggests, we can't NOT be a part of society. I don't know that I
properly understood what you said beforehand, but I believe that's what I
was stating before.
I don't believe we're unique, I don't believe that our personal definitions
go beyond the bounds of self preservation via delusions or conditioned
beliefs; the only reason we do this is to live-fear creates depression, and
so, we find means to counter it-because depression and such impedes the
will to live. That, when confronted by the ulterior truth we all know, for
example, we all know we'll die someday.
Do you want to die?
People like Goths and Punks, for example and in the general understanding
of the mass, act as warning beacons, by instilling moral ideals into
children-don't do your homework, and you'll end up like that bum, or that
creepy goth chick or that guy with the blue hair sniffing glue under the
bridge!
quote: you cannot be a
non-conformist and belong to a culture... a culture is defined as (and this
is the fitting dictionary definition for this situation) "the behaviors and
beliefs characteristic of a particular social, ethnic, or age group:"
Logically speaking... if you are all rebelling against standards and
confrmity then there is no way you can actually form a culture because even
if you all agree on rebellion as your defining characteristic... now you
are in agreement, and making a culture -which is contrary to your ideal
characteristic...
I know. Hence why I think anarchy and nihilism can never exist.
What about you? Don't you belong to any culture? You use your computer to
talk to people on the net and state your opinions about it, to tell me you
don't give a shit about it-but you still, and always will, belong to some
order or another-that's part of our grand Western civilization these days,
and beyond. It's a great cultural impact, so I don't really understand what
you're getting at.
Unless one lives in a cave and uses tree bark to wipe their asses, they all
belong to conformity, and just hollering about rebellion doesn't make one
as such.
quote: this isn't a goth site
(even says so up on the title bar) ... if you define yourself by some
social construct... then you are most likely wasting your time here... we
have almost every state here, foreigners, uber christians turned pagan...
christeo pagan, atheists, goth, punk, republican... we really dun care
about your culture as much as we do about who you are... without any
labels... save for your name...
You know how I found this site? I Googled ''not goth forums'' and this
place was the first result. I'm quite aware of that, (Could of figured as
much by the site design, too.) however it does say Gothic Philosophy
somewhere around here, so I thought that it might be fitting.
I'm certainly not here to bash Christians, Wiccans, Satanists, vampires,
foreigners, rebels and what have you.
If I'm wasting my time, then so be it-however if I learn just one thing on
my séjour here, it will have been all worth it.
Besides, I like Sailor Venus, she's awesome.
quote: sooo... define your
personal label and get back to me
Things like honour, courage, insanity or wisdom are usually given to other
people-we don't know what any of that is, but we still recognize it. Like
spam. One's wisdom is always defined by those around the individual. So,
how am I supposed to define myself? I am defined by others, as pathetic as
it may seem, and this definition has more impact upon my life and social
situation then what I make for myself.
I can't, for the most part, figure out WHAT I am, or where my place might
be-if anywhere.
I heard a song today, by that Serj dude from System of a Down, the song is
called The Sky is Over. I have no idea what the hell he was talking about
in the song, but it did make me think of this-
Even though you can afford to buy the sky itself, it will always remain
where it always has been, free to enjoy for the rest of us.
That pretty much defines my place in society, my beliefs attributed to it,
the struggles which may arise, and the questions I keep asking myself, but
as well, the underlining of the absolute. |
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 24/11/2007 at 10:56 AM |
BUT... the dictionary defines the most important aspect of any culture...
COMMUNICATION...
without a framework to express ideas and communicate...
please re-read what I said... I recommended that you get yourselves added
to the dictionary so there is a clear definition...
the problem with being a non-conformist is that you... are unique... just
like everyone else...
you cannot be a non-conformist and belong to a culture... a culture is
defined as (and this is the fitting dictionary definition for this
situation) "the behaviors and beliefs characteristic of a particular
social, ethnic, or age group:" Logically speaking... if you are all
rebelling against standards and confrmity then there is no way you can
actually form a culture because even if you all agree on rebellion as your
defining characteristic... now you are in agreement, and making a culture
-which is contrary to your ideal characteristic...
I am not bashing you... as I give less than a shit about social structures,
artificial or natural...
this isn't a goth site (even says so up on the title bar) ... if you define
yourself by some social construct... then you are most likely wasting your
time here... we have almost every state here, forgeigners, uber christians
turned pagan... christeo pagan, atheists, goth, punk, republican... we
really dun care about your culture as much as we do about who you are...
without any labels... save for your name...
sooo... define your personal label and get back to me ____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
/>
/>
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist |
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Sorrow
Occasional Poster Posts: 18 Registered: 21/11/2007 Status: Offline
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posted on 24/11/2007 at 10:24 AM |
quote: the ultimate question,
really is who gives a shit? if you need to codify and label yourself, then
you negate your very chance to influence the world
Then I certainly won't rely on a dictionary to define me, or other
Goths.
It's just that ''non conformist'' doesn't really sit too well, when most
Goths actually depend on society to display their image. You need boring
normal people to confirm your air of rebellion, and you give your money to
corporations and companies when you buy clothing or music-I've absolutely
no problem supporting the industrial genre, but it's funny how Funker Vogt
speaks out against the war and rich people while being allowed to sell
their shit because of American disc companies-or at least, having their
products manufactured there-the Goth culture has its own hand to play in
economy, as much as does a Punk who buys his two hundred dollar stomp
boots.
If he says he found them in the garbage though, while tugging his belt
which is nothing but a chain held together round his waist with a padlock,
then I'll be more inspired. You see where I'm getting at?
I don't know what Goth is, but it certainly doesn't seem to be true
rebellion-only an allure thereof. but sure, that's fun too.
Like activists who specialize in chainsaw sabotage. Do they care what they
dress like?
The point is, conformity or the lack thereof and rebellion are two
different things entirely of course, however you can't have one without the
other. If it wasn't for this society we claim to despise, would we be happy
doing what we are doing, would there be a need, a sense of satisfaction to
portray ourselves as such?
I was in art program a few years back-six months long. Basically, our goal
was to find a way to let society know how much it sucks-we decided on a
play, and so we made one, and there were five showings. In fact people even
asked us to play in different places. (We were supposed to go to Belgium to
present our hand made sensibilisation, but half of us had criminal records
that didn't allow us to even go that far.) The play was basically some sort
of opined collection of skits depicting the ridiculous obscurity of popular
social intricacies-we spoke out against corporations, the government, the
general mass's lack of self awareness and care for others, shit such as.
People liked it and everything, we were given the rare chance to speak out,
and it was rather crude, shocking and even disturbing.
Thing is-this fucking program was funded BY the government. I was mort
de rire, as they say. |
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 24/11/2007 at 12:21 AM |
then petition random house and websters... if ebonics is a language, if
ain't is a word, goth should be in there too...
thing is... there is no goth culture... there are a bunch of non
conformists... each with their own thoughts on what goth is... therefore
there can be no cogent definition...
is emo goth? is hot topic goth? should it go back to its roots (as a subset
of punk)?
the ultimate question, really is who gives a shit? if you need to codify
and label yourself, then you negate your very chance to influence the world ____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
/>
/>
/>
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist |
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Sorrow
Occasional Poster Posts: 18 Registered: 21/11/2007 Status: Offline
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posted on 22/11/2007 at 10:59 PM |
I doubt that has anything to do with the current Goth culture.
But if so, then I need to change my recipes.
Hmm, raw children. |
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