Devin
Administrator   Posts: 317 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Online
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 posted on 27/1/2004 at 06:10 PM |
One of the cool things about polyamory is that you don't have to follow
other people's rules about how you go about things. You do however have to
have rules (whether spoken or unspoken). Partners have to know what they
can expect from each other and know that there will be no unpleasant
surprises. They have to know what comprimises need to be made, and how they
are going to go about making them so that everyone can be happy. That's
what it's all about after all.
I'm not going to say who they are, but there's at least 3 people that I
know of on the site who are starting to think about how this might all work
for them. I've given some suggestions, but I'm sure there are more good
ideas floating around. The question is What are some good / unusual /
unique / effective rules that poly people have come up with to make
their lives more fun and less stressful.
I'll start with one I've had in the past: Vacation time .
When one person is out of the state, anything goes. All other rules such as
asking permission, or letting the other person meet the new person don't
apply. As long as when they get back, everything goes back to exactly how
it was when they left.
I recently found a brilliant version of this on the net, that I liked much
better. I'm going to try and use theirs instead from now on. (I don't
agree with their "refusal need not be explained" clause however, I think it
should be explained, but should not be argued).
Hunting licenses. If one partner is going away on a trip, and
wants to be able to take advantage of sexual contacts during that time when
interviewing is not available, s/he can apply to the other partner for a
"hunting license". This will entail the license-holder to have sex without
prior interviewing or permission. Rules pertaining:
A. Hunting licenses do not have to be granted. Their refusal need not be
explained, and cannot be argued. They are a privilege, not a right.
B. They are only good for the specified period of time.
C. Sexual contacts picked up on a hunting license can only be one-shot
deals. If, after returning home, once the license has expired, the partner
wants to continue to see this contact, they must start from scratch as if
there had been no sex, bringing them for a standard interview. All rules
and vetoes then apply.
D. The sexual contacts during the licensing period must be made fully aware
of the polyamorous situation, including what they can expect afterwards,
and must not have SOs who would object. (This must be verified with a phone
call.)
E. The first free time directly following the cessation of a hunting
license period must be spent in quality time with the primary partner.
(The page this was blatantly stolen from is here: http://www.scarletletters.com/current/021403_nf_rk.shtml )
The purpose of this forum is to see what rules people use or have used to
make their relationships work better. Hopefully this will give people ideas
they can use and refine to come up with their own.
____________________
So Sayeth Me
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Devin
Administrator Posts: 317 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Online
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posted on 2/2/2004 at 02:00 PM |
I think this is always something that people need to watch out for. Even
if one person doesn't always tend toward the veto, people have phases. I
remember a phase where the person I was with was having a little flashback
to her previous party girl phase, and was picking really bad playmates for
a little while. She didn't see that they were bad, because if she was
single and in her partygirl phase, they would have been fine. I HATE having
to veto people, but in that phase, I had to veto quite a few. I ended up
not even asking about some people that I wanted to play with just out of
guilt over those veto's. Once we were able to talk about it enough, and she
really understood why I was veto'ing them, she was able to change what she
was doing. She started making better choices, and I didnt' have to veto
them.
It goes both ways. When you're involved with somebody and you're picking
playmates, you're not just picking ones that would be fun for you. You
have to pick ones that will be comfortable for your partner. It limits
your options a bit, and you don't get to play with all of the same people
you would if you were single. But your options are already limited by the
fact that so few people will even play with you when you're with someone
else - what's a little more limitation going to matter?
If one person is veto'ing out of jealousy or insecurity, than that's
something that needs to be adressed seperately of the veto issue. If you
find your playmates getting veto'd a lot, it might be worth examining your
choices as well. If your partners are veto'ing a lot of people that would
be bad for you, then they are doing what they are supposed to be doing.
That's what veto's are for. If that's what's going on, you might need to
find a way to chase different kind of playmates.
Uneven veto's shouldn't be a problem in themselves - they should be an
indication of another problem that needs to be looked at (and talked about
way more than either of you probably want to). If a couple (or more) can't
solve these kind of problems this way, they're probably not going to be
together long anyway, so probably shouldn't worry about it. ____________________
So Sayeth Me
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pAris
Member   Posts: 115 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 2/2/2004 at 12:49 PM |
well, I think one problem with some of people I have played with is the
fact that not many people seem to be good at the whole idea of "what's good
for the goose is good for the gander" and whatnot.
What I mean, is that if one person of a poly couple is always giving and
willing to let the other person explore their fantasies either together or
with others, but feels left out because their partner tends toward the veto
when they want to do someone/something different. Then that person ends up
feeling like "why the fuck did I bother?"
In other words, when someone gets to play, but gets jealous when their
partner wants to play, it ends up just making a great sucking sound.
just my $.02
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Meranda_Jade
Fanatic  Posts: 511 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 31/1/2004 at 04:33 PM |
LOL... "no matter what" list... that sounds like a great game right
there... can hardly wait to play it. I have a few "no matter whats". ____________________
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callei
Extreme Fanatic   Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 31/1/2004 at 04:24 PM |
another special case thing for the poly out there: the list of "no matter
what's". by this I mean the people that you or they would have sex with no
matter what is going on between you. These are usually movie stars or
something, but its a fun game to play when people watching as well.
"i'd fuck her even if you were at your mother's funeral"
"I'd fuck here even she stole your favorite sweater."
Its the opposite (sort of) of the "even if they were the last person on the
planet" kind of games.
Its also a good way to get to know your lovers' taste in people. ____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.
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Ianthe99
Member  Posts: 96 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 29/1/2004 at 09:42 PM |
Exactly! My latest FWB was always honest.. we actually had a couple of
nice, long, heart-to-heart talks. It didn't make it feel any better when he
came back from a little vacation this week with a new monogomus
relationship mind you. I freaked.. yeah. felt all broken and hurt. Hell..
I've been totally obsessing over this guy. I actaully considered having a
monogomus relationship with him. (ok.. yeah.. I got too wrapped up) After
long hard thought though.. (even before the choice was no longer mine) I
realized that I am just *not* monogomus. Period. I *like* my freedom.. a
lot. I need to be able to explore relationships and fun times with other
people. I am just not good with one guy/one girl.. (or whatever combo
floats your particular boat) Ahh well..
At least the ex-lover still really cares for me a lot and genuinely still
wants to be close friends. The bond actually went both ways this time.. I
just let my heart into a little more than he let his. He was afraid to get
too attached because he knew he wasn't poly minded. A good friend is
better than what usually happens... ____________________
She who dies with the most toys wins!
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Meranda_Jade
Fanatic Posts: 511 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 29/1/2004 at 09:22 PM |
Yeah, I've never really followed that one myself, either. I always end
up getting hurt out of it, but what can you do? Its not always easy to
control how you feel about someone. Sometimes your mind is screaming at you
"This is really, really stupid." and your heart just goes, "Well, I feel
like being stupid right now. Nyeh." Then you have to just deal with it.
It's best if your monogamous friend is honest about what you can expect
from them... then when they're done with you its easier to nurse your
wounds than having to also cope with the shock of feelings of betrayal.
And having someone to "fall back on" doesn't make it any easier. First of
all, the person you're with isn't just a safeguard for your broken heart.
Second, when you bring a broken heart home, you're also bringing home all
the drama and baggage that comes with it and your partner has to deal with
it and try to put you back together again. That's not really fair to the
partner, but its something we all accept will happen on occasion. It's nice
to have people around who love you and will help you put yourself back
together, but that's not all they're there for! ____________________
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Devin
Administrator Posts: 317 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Online
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posted on 29/1/2004 at 08:25 PM |
No playing with monogamous people is a rule I've never had myself.
I'm not sure I'd ever want to have that be a rule, but I could definately
see the value in it. It would save a lot of drama and a lot of heart
stompings.
I've had this happen more times than I ever want to think about
remembering. People always tell me "at least you have someone to fall back
on". Pffff.... yea that helps a bit, sure, but somehow doesn't make me
feel all that much better. ____________________
So Sayeth Me
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Meranda_Jade
Fanatic Posts: 511 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 29/1/2004 at 05:12 PM |
Ianthe: Doesn't it suck when a new toy seems to think that a relationship
with you isn't a "real" relationship simply because it cannot be exclusive?
I hate it when that happens. It's like you become a plaything for them,
when you see it as a potentially serious thing... and you run a very high
risk of being hurt deeply by it. People should not play with poly people
under the pretense of being serious if they have no intention of taking it
seriously. Of course, if they come right out and say they're not serious
right from the first, that's a whole other story. Then you have the option
of not taking it so seriously as well and can have a barrel of fun with it.
We ought to have personal rules like "I will not let my heart get too
deeply involved unless I'm certain that this person is just as involved as
I am." Of course, sometimes the heart can be a treacherous bitch and do the
exact opposite of what you tell it... but at least it won't end up being a
nasty surprise when your shiny new toy runs off to have a "real"
relationship with someone else.
____________________
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Devin
Administrator Posts: 317 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Online
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posted on 29/1/2004 at 02:00 PM |
Meranda:
"Don't leave" is actually an unusual rule in iteself. Not every couple
could get away with only having that one. But if there is going to be just
one rule - that's a brilliant one.
callei:
LOL @ dodge the mistress. You've told me that story. I've never actually
heard anyone admit to playing that game. I've seen tons of people do it
though. Yep, I'm guilty too. ____________________
So Sayeth Me
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callei
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 29/1/2004 at 12:36 PM |
any one ever played "dodge the mistres"? its a fun one to play when your SO
is getting bored with thier toy, oe if they got all caught up in a
dramababy. you plot ways to "dodge the mistress". Its not meant to be a
mean game, just a way to help the break up while reaffirming the
relationship between the two that are dodging the other one.
Another is "official whine time" when one or both parties need time to
bitch and moan about thier other SO's or toys. this may be something that
girls need more than boys, but I doubt it. Its got special rules like
tweeky time does, only it lasts from a few minutes to a few hours and
nobody holds it against you when you are done. ____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 29/1/2004 at 12:16 PM |
| That's fine... for me... it a source of interest... sorry to be so first
study about it ____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
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Ianthe99
Member Posts: 96 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 28/1/2004 at 09:38 PM |
"Shiny new toy syndrome"
Heh.. nope! Never had that..
Hmm.. need to find another shiny new toy..just lost a very good one to an
"actual" relationship. *sigh*
Sorry.. just rambling. Haven't been here for a while.. ____________________
She who dies with the most toys wins!
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Meranda_Jade
Fanatic Posts: 511 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 28/1/2004 at 09:33 PM |
Quite honestly, I've never thought about unusual rules. Every situation is
unusual and needs to be dealt with in an unusual way. We've been winging it
this whole time. When we first got together (Rogue and I) we decided that
we would have an open marriage and that the one rule to our marriage was
that we couldn't leave it (unelss you leave me first, or in my case, unless
you leave me first or hit me in anger) . That has been an easy vow to
keep. Everything else seems to go. We do try to take in each others'
emotional reactions to other people and act accordingly, but there are no
hard and fast rules.
I was surprised when I actually went and checked out that link you posted,
Devin... and discovered that it was very similar to what I'd written. I
guess the language is much the same when talking about this subject...
____________________
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Devin
Administrator Posts: 317 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Online
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 posted on 28/1/2004 at 04:07 PM |
This is all critical stuff. It definately needed to be said, and needs to
be said in any discussion like this - since you can't downplay the
importance. I do think it's a little on the "poly 101" side. The question
was more about unusual stuff - ideas that people aren't going to find
easily elsewhere. There's hundreds of sites on the internet about
communication, and if you think about it, the answers are obvious.
Some things are not obvious until you see how other people do them. I know
I never thought as much as I should have about the vacations vs. hunting
licenses thing. Here's another example:
A partner and I used to have a rule that the rules could be re-negotiated
at any time. It sounds like a good idea. Unfortunately, the times when
you end up re-negotiating the rules are the times when you want to get
around them. These are the worst possible times to do it. There's too
much pressure, and it's hard to make good choices.
I see 2 good solutions to this.
The obvious one is that the rules can be re-negotiated at any time EXCEPT
when anyone's having Shiny New Lover Syndrome (or to use meranda's words
"New Toy Syndrome ").
Another good one is that the rules can be renegotiated at any time, but the
rules that were in effect when you meet a person are the rules that apply
to them. ____________________
So Sayeth Me
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Meranda_Jade
Fanatic Posts: 511 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 28/1/2004 at 03:23 PM |
(I started writing this before Cashmere posted her second reply to Feral,
and I agree with her about not being in the right frame of mind sometimes.
My position on how the conversation pattern ought to go still stands. Talk
to the other partner, get some insight, get straightened out, then go talk
to the partner you had a problem with.)
Feral, I do see your point. Going to one of the other partners with a
problem could look very much like going behind the other's back. Care must
be taken when discussing your own problems with someone, especially if
those problems involve someone else very close to both people having the
talk. It can look either like malicious gossip or even like the two people
are ganging up on the other one. That said, it is VERY good when all people
involved have a close rapport and can trust one another with what they're
all feeling. I think that is what Cashmere was getting at. In a poly
situation where the people involved are looking at long-term cohabitation
especially, feelings MUST be kept in the open and dealt with honestly. Any
hiding of anything could be seen as a lack of trust or be misinterpreted.
That is one area I've struggled to deal with most. I tend to lock up when
I'm feeling hurt and it's silly to keep it inside when candid communication
could ease that hurt. In a poly situation, hurt feelings for a multitude of
reasons, most silly, some not, are more likely to arise than in one-on-one
relationships. When you can talk to all of your partners about what is
going on with you, you can more easily find out just what may be bothering
you and fix it. If you're talking to one partner about your feelings and
they have to do with the other partner, it is a good rule of thumb to go to
the other partner afterward and tell them how you were feeling and that you
talked about it with the other partner so that the partner being talked
about isn't left in the dark. Under no circumstances, if you are the
partner being confided in, are you to go relate to the other partner what
the other one was saying about them. That is the responsibility of the
partner who had the original problem. Basically, If Jane has a problem with
her feelings about Billy and she goes to Mary to talk about it, she should
then go talk to Billy and get things straightened out. Mary should offer
Jane an ear and support and then stay out of it until Jane and Billy come
back and they all have a talk together about it. The first and most
important rule when dealing with a poly situation is COMMUNICATION.
Brutally honest communication, even if you think something might be painful
for someone to hear. If a problem does not become open, it could poison the
whole thing.
Another good rule, one which is very difficult to practice, is to pay
extra close attention to how all of your partners are feeling. Say Mary
gets a new toy. Mary is all starry-eyed and wrapped up in her new toy and
doesn't notice that Billy is feeling ignored and abandoned. Billy needs to
understand that Mary is afflicted with New Toy Syndrome and that she is not
ignoring him deliberately and Mary needs to watch and be extra careful of
Billy's feelings or Billy will feel resentful about the new toy and the new
toy will never have a chance to be anything more than a temporary
plaything. Billy needs to be patient with Mary, (which is the hardest part.
It's very hard to watch someone in the throes of New Toy Syndrome. It feels
horrible to feel like a cast-off old toy. Everybody does, though. It's one
thing that can't be helped but when New Toy Syndrome is over, if you've
made it through, there's a good chance you'll like the new toy too.) and
Mary needs to give Billy extra-strength attention. Both Billy and Mary need
to talk honestly about how the new toy makes them feel. Now, if Jane is
already a fixture in the household, this becomes much easier. Billy and
Jane will still need extra-strength attention from Mary, but feeling like
cast-off old toys won't sting as badly if they're playing with each other
while Mary is occupied.
Again, it gets down to honestly communicating your feelings instead of
feeling hurt and resentment and letting it build up and explode. (I once
got very silly when I was dealing with a partner's New Toy Syndrome for the
first time. I started keeping notes and making time-charts to prove that I
was being ignored and then woke both of them up after they had been up all
night playing with each other to discuss it. I was in ridiculous amounts
of pain over that one because none of us were good at communicating
anything at the time. I also learned that the harder you struggle to NOT
be jealous, the worse it gets. Best to just admit to it and deal with it
and see if your partners can help you deal with it. A good, honest, "Hey!
I'm feeling ignored and abandoned and I'm getting jealous about it!" to
your partners is better than getting hateful with them and ruining
everything. They do care about you too, and if you just tell them how you
feel, they will try to make sure you don't keep hurting.) Of course,
sometimes you don't know how you feel and you have trouble sorting it out.
Talking with your partners can help you understand what you're feeling.
Maybe they can see something that you are missing. Again, open, brutally
honest communication is what must happen. It can be a very scary thing to
be absolutely honest with other people about something as personal as what
you feel. Especially if you tend to not be honest with yourself about how
you feel. If you want to be poly, you have to get over that or it will
never work.
[Edited on 1/28/2004 by Meranda_Jade] ____________________
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Cashmere
Member  Posts: 58 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 28/1/2004 at 02:12 PM |
Feral: I should have mentioned talking with the partner(s) themselves, but
you are not always in a proper frame of mind to do that right away. It
helps to be able to talk to the other people involved. They can give
greater insight into a situation than friends or relatives might be able
to, since they know how you feel. They are in a better position to give
advice in a lot of situations.
I was always afraid to talk to the other people involved, and I found it
amazing the insight that they can give. Talking with someone else can help
you find what, is anything, is bothering you ro making you sad, whatever. I
am not saying that this is a substitute for talking to your partner.
[Edited on 1/28/2004 by Cashmere] ____________________
"Truth is always on the move. It is always somewhere, but never in the
foreground, never on the surface."
-Franz Marc
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 28/1/2004 at 12:33 PM |
cashmere...
I dunno... I have always felt that it is better to talk to the partner
themself... Just the way I see it...
Feral ____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
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Cashmere
Member Posts: 58 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 28/1/2004 at 10:18 AM |
While not necessarily a rule, it is a very good idea to be able to talk to
your partners' partners. Who is better to bitch to than someone who knows
EXACTLY what you are going through? Who is in a better situation to offer a
practical solution? If a partner is being less attentive, ask if
he/she/them feels the same. It can make things much better when it comes to
telling your partner(s) when they cannot say "it's just in your head." If
you have been included into a relationship that has been going on for a
while. Your partner's partners can help you when everything becomes less
than stars and wonderfulness. They can be your best source for support.
Kira, I read it the exact same way. ____________________
"Truth is always on the move. It is always somewhere, but never in the
foreground, never on the surface."
-Franz Marc
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Kira
Member  Posts: 149 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 28/1/2004 at 09:30 AM |
| Maybe this is just indicative of my current mindset, but when I first saw
this forum title pop up I read it as "Poly Rules!" instead of "Poly Rules."
____________________
Wind me up and make me crawl to you, tie me up until I call to you.
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