Beast
Occasional Poster   Posts: 43 Registered: 19/6/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 7/7/2002 at 10:49 PM |
| Like some other people that post there ideas on this site they would like
to know what other people think. I would like to do the same. Mine is
"Why is there violence in the world?" Many scholars have pondered over
this question for many centurys. (please dont correct my spelling if i mis
spell something). The other think that i would like people to ponber is
"what purpose does it have on socity?" Please share your thoughts. ____________________
In the heart of every warrior there is a mouse
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic   Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 25/9/2002 at 11:09 AM |
No no no, not the actual classroom, I´m talking educational standards...not
the methods. I know how brutal japanese schools are, and I´ve read about
the suicide rates after final exams in college because the students know
they failed and the shame it would bring on their parents..so they kill
themselves to avoid family disgrace.
I also am aware of the whys of columbine and other school
shootings/brutalities. I know what it´s like, I was just a tad more stable
than some of those kids. It IS alpha male mentality and leader of the pack
bullies that make it hell for the "underlings". They´re as guilty for
violence as the kids who´ve been pushed just one time many too far. But
mental instability and home life also have to come into play on the part of
the kids that ARE pushed "too far" and act on it. Parents that don´t know
what their kids are doing...parents that don´t listen or even WATCH for
signs of trouble or distress. Parents that just don´t care and when their
kid is dead from suicide or goes on a killing spree, they point to everyone
but themselves.
America puts so much emphasis on passing the buck, they expect teachers to
virtually raise their kids but give them none of the authority or ability
to help or step in when they see trouble. They can talk to the parent, and
the parent will either curl in on denial or tell the teacher they´re full
of shit...but school administration is the first place they point the
finger when the shit hits the fan. Not the bullies, or the bullies
parents, nor the parents of the "victim" themselves....america wants it´s
cake and to throw it too....here, we´ll pay you virtually nothing and heap
on you the responsibility to raise our kids and not give you the authority
to do so. Don´t tell me my kid seems depressed, I know my kid, all he does
is hide in his room and look up bomb recipes on the internet, what´s wrong
with that? Oh boys will be boys, you´re just picking on my kid...all kids
tease.
This has always gone on throughout history...it´s no different now, except
for nobody wants to deal with their kids anymore.
I don´t have the friggin´ answers...and most parents do the best they can,
trying to support a family and being there for their kids, but most are
just lost. Some are just plain out selfish or stupid. I don´t know if I
even wanna have kids, not because I don´t think I´m up to the challenge, I
just don´t think I want to bring kids into an enviroment like that, having
to deal with at least one more generation of fuckups and THEIR little
fuckups.
____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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Comedian
Fanatic   Posts: 213 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 25/9/2002 at 08:17 AM |
I dunno about the Japanese classroom issue, Bettie. While it is true that
any year in a Japanese school would crack an American kid, most of the
school violence we see in America is created through the alienation of
individuals from the pack mentality as alpha males go about openly excising
them from the pack and taking time out of their busy schedule to ridicule
them and make them feel frustrated. Columbine, as few people have noted,
was all about two gay students who were openly ridiculed and finally took
action at the breaking point. Oddly enough, the principal who ignored
their pleas for help is still employed at the same job.
Japanese schools are slightly different. In the cities you have the cram
schools, and in the rural areas of Japan are some of the most laid-back and
educational schools you can find. Maybe there´s something in the water,
but in rural japan usually you have less of a dropout/suicide rate and much
higher grades than in the cram areas, which is a statistic similar to
American society. Much of Japanese school stress issues can be translated
into suicide; they lack firearms so most of their aggressions can only go
inward instead of outward. Equalization via "the equalizer" is no answer
to the problem for them, so internalizing their problems, social
outcastedness or failure to perform to society´s expectations of them
suually results in feelings of abandonement, alienation and ultimately
results in suicide.
____________________
Make way for the bad guy!
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 25/9/2002 at 12:45 AM |
Depends on the type of monkey. Silver back gorillas are actually quite
benign and peaceful, while chimps (humanities closest relative) will eat
your guts if you look at them wrong. They have the temper of a 3 year old
human with the strength of a full sized man on angeldust.
I don´t think violence is the only reason we were able to survive. A
larger brain and evolutionary blessings and all the goodies that come with
it like the ability to reason, thumbs, ability to use tools, inventiveness
and the adaptability that came from these things allowed us to survive, as
well as being able to speak and form communication.
Most violence today stems from frusteration or anger. Teen violence has
always been high, because there are severe hormonal changes and peaks and
valleys as bodies grow. Lots of stress (not from education mind you, I´d
hate to see how these kids respond in a japanese classroom) and a society
that has become totally obsessed with the self and self satisfaction and
immediate gratification and the unfettering of such ideas as self control,
common sense, and respect.
Humanity at it´s core I would like to believe is good, just very, very
confused and angry.
I hope it passes before the cretins blow my ass up, or their immolation is
self contained.
I don´t want my last words to be someone else´s echoing cry of "hey y´all,
watch THIS!" ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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grimlore
Occasional Poster  Posts: 32 Registered: 20/9/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 24/9/2002 at 03:56 PM |
| ah violence...something that will always exist as long as there is a human
presence in this world. Now thats just violence in the human world, I
remember hearing that monkeys commit sensless acts on one another
too...dont they? ____________________
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Comedian
Fanatic Posts: 213 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 24/9/2002 at 01:35 PM |
Can´t we all just listen to some Barry White and get along?
Can´t get enough of your love baby! Girl I know I don´t know why I can´t
get enough of your love baaaa-by! ____________________
Make way for the bad guy!
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Anonymous
 Posts: 116 Registered: 14/4/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 23/9/2002 at 04:02 AM |
Just a thought on violence , evolution and instinct .
Homo sapiens are by nature predators . We survive by preying on lower
members of the food chain . predators are by nature territorial , and
violently confrontational when said territory is violated .
Now while the opposable thumb has done much to advance us , it has been
an altogether differant thing that has put us on top of the food chain .
ALTRUISM . it´s this trait that has enable us to spread and organize such
a vast species into a globally connected dominion . Even totalitarian
dictatorships to some extent kept and maintained members of the species who
by natural selection wouldn´t make it on their own . ( even Hitler kept his
jewish physicists well fed and healthy )
Now in the world today we have problem . There are few if any avenues
for the more aggressively tuned members of the species to channel such
aggression . Sports programs cover less than 2 % of the people who would
use them . We have more and more people crowding into spaces that are
smaller and smaller ( New York city has more population than the state of
Wisconsin) And amongst these crowded predators are those who are driven to
prove and channel that aggression . Only there can be only so many star
athletes , so many class presidents and such . Add in the natural tendency
of alpha males to keep betas in their place with humiliation ( wolves use
the same method to keep order on a pack) and you get predators that do not
see oe learn that altruism is survival . They do what comes naturaly . They
even the odds and challenge the Alpha .
Hence workplace shootings , school shootings and such . For over a
decade the terrible misconstrued idea of aggression being wrong and can be
eliminated thru education ahs lead us to an apologist philosophy of
victomology . Instead of confronting aggresion and finding ways to channel
and control it to more positive and benficial uses for all . They have
treated it like a dirty secret and now reap the harvest they sown . they
ahve ridiculed and done their best to defame viable and good outlets for
aggression (most colleges forbid ROTC while encouraging the study of and
meetings of extremists )
The more they attempt to hide and denywhat only comes naturally the
more it is gonna be a back lash .
____________________
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Beast
Occasional Poster Posts: 43 Registered: 19/6/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 28/7/2002 at 09:20 AM |
| The sad thing is that the only reason that we think that it is more violent
is that things are comunacated a lot quicker. I believe that the the
threats on every one are the same as 50, 100, 500, 1000 years ago. The
danger was there but the people involved are different. The Germans were
replaced by the Japanies, which were replaced by the Al-Quida. ____________________
In the heart of every warrior there is a mouse
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callei
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 28/7/2002 at 08:27 AM |
actually kids today have LESS to worry about than 50 years ago. Teen-age
pregnancy is at its lowest ever. Minors are somehting like 5 times more
likely to be hurt or killed by someone over 25 then by each other. Minors
are much less likely to die of disease or starvation than thier parents or
grandparents, including the risk of AIDS. Sure parents divorde, but they
are far les likely to die, and with a divorce you still get to keep both
parents most of the time. The question of being "cool" enough has always
been there, its part of growing up. Minors have more luxuries, more school
hours, more social protection (ie social services stepping in when kids are
abused, school making sure you get your shots and all that) than ever
before. Minors today as compared with 20 years ago even have more time with
thier parents. Minors are even less likely to be sexually assulted (by a
little bit) than thier parents or grandparents.
Dont believe the hype. Life doesnt suck harder for you than it does for
anyone else. ____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.
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DarkMistress
Member   Posts: 170 Registered: 6/6/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 27/7/2002 at 09:18 AM |
I knew Luke Helder, the pipe bomber. I know his family. He graduated
with my old babysitter, and when they interviewed people on the news, no
one had anything bad to say about him. He was a nice guy, a very nice guy.
He opposed the government greatly. I know a kid who was going to go with
Luke across the country, but he was moved to Colorado. I don´t think he
was bullied at school, and his parents were always there for him. I
believe his hatred toward the government caused his violent acts. Luckily
his family had a lot of support, because our town can be brutal.
____________________
"Pity no one was there
No angels in the air
And the morning paper ran
One more suicide"
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AloneSoul
Fanatic  Posts: 522 Registered: 6/7/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 26/7/2002 at 09:43 PM |
Yes, many people do have problems within their own genetics. Some people
have chemical imbalances and it only takes a nudge to set them off. Yes,
some people who are mentally impeded may become more violent by seeing too
many violent images at once. Without proper supervision and guidance, that
person will become a doer of evil deeds.
Children too are very influential to what they see. At a young age they
will become more aggressive if playing too many violent games, but in 9 out
of 10 cases, the child does become less aggressive after a short amount of
time. The child also, with a mother’s love, will become less aggressive. A
child who is carefully monitored, knows the difference between fantasy and
reality, a child which can handle the adult situations which will come to
him soon in his life, will be able to live a normal life...in most
cases.
There are some children which try to act out the stunts they see on
television. The children which perform stunts off of Jackass and try to fly
like Hairy Potter, they are young and their parents obviously did not sit
down to explain to them how reality works. As sad as it is, if they die,
they die. We all have to pass on and make room for the next generation. *I
may get flames for that comment, go ahead, I’ll tackle them head on.*
Heh, sorry I’m ranting. I did a term paper on this. Anywho -
It’s strange how Christian leaders said that Columbine and other school
shootings could have been stopped if the students where allowed to pray in
school. Full classroom prayers.
It’s ironic how many serial killers tell police that the “Holy Bible” was
their inspiration to kill, to punish “sinners.”
It’s funny how political leaders tried to blame Marilyn Manson for
“influencing” the two gunmen to shoot the people which bullied them, and
those which didn’t....then they later found out that those two gunmen did
not even like Manson.
How peculiar that they blame Doom, a very, very old PC game, not NEARLY as
violent as today’s games for influencing the two gunmen to go on a killing
spree...it was later found out that their parents did not even check their
kids while they were constructing pipe bombs in their garage.
It’s also strange how other countries, such as Japan, have low crime rates
yet uncensored, mature material available for their children at every
corner. Manga, anime, television, movies, games, all of it goes uncensored
within the country yet they have one of the lowest crime rates in the
world.
It is how the children are raised, not how much violence they are exposed
to but their parental influence. Most children are jaded by their parents,
they become violent from their influence or lack of.
But it’s not only that. Children today are faced with a greater number of
problems at younger and younger ages than their parents ever had.
“Am I pregnant?”
“Who’s that freak?”
“Where are my parents?”
“Do I look good enough?”
“Why are they picking on me?”
“Why are they getting a divorce?”
“Why is the minister touching me?”
“Will that mean man try to get me into his car again?”
“Will I be shot the next time I step outside my door for wearing the wrong
colors?”
I can go on. Violence is always around us. Media celebrates that. When we
suffer, they film it and the world sees it. Our small world is drowning in
the blood of it’s own religious, racial and feeble-minded bigots.
Our society thrives on gluttony and sloth, we eat too much, we over react
and take things too seriously...but we do nothing to stop it. A good
portion of our mainstream society is filled with mindless sheep which
follow the latest craze.
ack, sorry about that rant...got me going there and I wouldn´t shut up. ____________________
 but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 26/7/2002 at 08:37 PM |
"Then the bubble headed bleach blonde, comes on at 5, she can tell you
´bout the plane crash with a gleam in her eye...it´s interesting when
people die, give us dirty laundry"
sorry, it´s an old 80´s song (can´t remember the artist) that came to me
when reading alonesoul´s post.
There is such a thing as a natural born killer. THere is such a thing as a
natural born pacifist, or giver, or leader. It´s in our makeup. Most of
us were fortunate enough (if born with a violent trait) to grow up in an
environment that allowed us to understand the consequences of being
violent...and a guiding hand to help us through. Sometimes the most
gruesome killers come out of middleclass mid income homes with both parents
present emotionally and supportively. Sometimes genetics overrule the
conscious brain.
All children are naturally emotional and reactive...and violent. If
someone angers you as a child, your natural urge is to smack it. You have
to be taught that isn´t okay. That it isn´t okay to steal..that it isn´t
okay to hurt.
Most kids don´t have that guidance. I think television and media and music
only damage a child when there is no guidance and support from parents..to
teach them the meaning, why it happens, what happens when you fire a gun at
someone....to teach them the line between fantasy and reality. MILLIONS of
kids are growing up with no grip on reality and consequence and
conscience.
They do not grow out of natural childhood selfishness..they do not grow out
of natural childhood violent tendencies. They do not realize that for
actions there are reactions and consequences. They grow up feeling
owed...owed money and gifts by their parents, owed the undue attention of
everyone around them no matter what they have to do to get it...
I think they confuse their unrightful demands for material goods with their
rightfully owed dues of emotional support and guidance. ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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DarkMistress
Member Posts: 170 Registered: 6/6/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 26/7/2002 at 07:37 AM |
I had to debate on TV violence for reading class. We didn´t get to pick
our sides, I had the side that says its bad for children, however, i don´t
believe that. If you´ve been to poison´s page she has a great point of
view. Media reflects our society. If you´ve seen the movie Son of Sam,
isn´t that based on a real guy? And when they test the effects of tv
violence on children they notice that when kids watch their heart rate
speeds up. But for a kid who watches a lot of tv violence their heart rate
stays the same. However, these testings were done in labs and in that
sense can´t be connected to the real world. Supposively children who watch
a lot of violence are violent with their toys. BUT, they´re not violent
toward the other children they´re playing with. Children try to mimick
what they see, its natural. It doesn´t mean a child who watches a lot tv
with a lot of violence will end up a killer. I won the debate, even though
I was arguing the other side.
Hopefully I haven´t repeated a bunch of people, I´m too lazy to read
through the whole forum. ____________________
"Pity no one was there
No angels in the air
And the morning paper ran
One more suicide"
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AloneSoul
Fanatic Posts: 522 Registered: 6/7/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 25/7/2002 at 09:52 PM |
“Times haven’t become more violent, only more televised Marilyn Manson
It’s a very good way to think about things.
Media, they are some of the biggest hypocrites I know of. They thrive off
of violence yet condemn it on the 10 pm news. They take in the violence and
spit it back to us and our society swallows every last drop of it.
We are a world which, for a good portion, can only sustain themselves
through the lives of others. It’s so sad to see that the only way some
people can enrich their pointless lives is through the scrupulous
examination of celebrities and their elite lifestyles.
The same goes for violence. Except those people are in the media. And they
make a living off of our suffering without one single care for our well
being.
I blame the media for this whole violence hysteria. They market it, some
love it, they condemn it, some accept it, it’s a continuous cycle. Even
congressmen have made their own battle slogans out of it.
“Save the impressionable children from toxic materials!”
It makes me SICK to see so many people chew this crap with a smile.
Violence is not the problem. Entertainment is not the problem. WE are the
problem. Our ignorance is the problem. Our greed is the problem. People who
wish to make a industry off of violence and them condemn it for a EXTRA
buck or political boost. THAT human (I doubt even lesser animals do this
porously, only instinctively) thing called avarice is the problem. ____________________
SRC="http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/snes/ff6/images/characters/kefka.gi
f">
size=1> but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 25/7/2002 at 08:26 PM |
| Yup, the religion one has been kicking your ass (pardon the pun) ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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Beast
Occasional Poster Posts: 43 Registered: 19/6/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 25/7/2002 at 07:55 PM |
| not any more :-? :-? :-? :-? :-? ____________________
In the heart of every warrior there is a mouse
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Beast
Occasional Poster Posts: 43 Registered: 19/6/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 21/7/2002 at 09:46 PM |
| I have the largest forum :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D ____________________
In the heart of every warrior there is a mouse
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Beast
Occasional Poster Posts: 43 Registered: 19/6/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 21/7/2002 at 09:45 PM |
| I have the largest forum :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D ____________________
In the heart of every warrior there is a mouse
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Beast
Occasional Poster Posts: 43 Registered: 19/6/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 21/7/2002 at 09:40 AM |
| I am one not to stand there and watch a fight but i want to get in them and
end them 8-) by any means nessary if that means kicking a little ass i will
do it ____________________
In the heart of every warrior there is a mouse
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IamSquid
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 658 Registered: 27/5/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 21/7/2002 at 01:40 AM |
If I might shovel some fnord on this flame, violence in the media is not
the problem. The conclusions the media sublimates to us in real-life
scenarios is the problem.
Take for example, the OJ trial. I think he did it. Of course I´m going
to, the media was making us believe he was guilty from the second the news
broke. For crying out loud, the man was found not guilty and I still think
he did it.
If anything the media makes us into lambs. They want us to enjoy watching
fights but not to get in them so when the friggin Gestapo kicks down yor
neighbor´s door yoo just stand there watching it and think how terrible yor
neighbor must be. ____________________
i wanted to die, and then it progressed into wanting everyone else to
die so i could watch, and then me die.
-ickgirl
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