Xaoswolf
Fanatic   Posts: 463 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 5/9/2006 at 08:48 AM |
| I think that he means that the primitive culture would have had more
computing power in their flint spear tips than we had on the space shuttle,
and as such, could have made a giant atlatl to send people to the moon via
spear; but as they knew that after going to the moon they would have to
make flint I-pods next, and as such, would be fucked, they just went back
to hunting moose... ____________________
Sometimes I dream about dinosaurs shopping for cargo shorts at the Gap.
Does that make me a bad person?
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pale-face
Fanatic  Posts: 478 Registered: 22/9/2004 Status: Offline
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posted on 5/9/2006 at 01:29 PM |
feral the only problem i had with what you said is
quote:
ages were measued in
metalluygical deiscovery... and now ... by that standard, we're going
through an age a week, or in som cases, before lunch.
and the changes in technology, by the standards of late, are unreasonable.
computers can become obsolete in the matter of months. improvements in
technology have become so abundant that ther are now insignificnt. i think
we should stop measuring our sucess inch at a time and start with the yard
stick. ____________________
fucking classy.
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic   Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 5/9/2006 at 07:03 PM |
as usual, you have missed my point...
We are more dependent on the whole on the technology, because we as a
people have let ourselves become soft BECAUSE of it...
without a flint tipped spear... there is still A HARDENED SHARP STICK...
and they are still able to survive...
todays technology goes, and the entire "civilization" falls...
I was simply pointing out that it...
ya know what... not worth my effort anymore... ____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
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pale-face
Fanatic Posts: 478 Registered: 22/9/2004 Status: Offline
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posted on 5/9/2006 at 07:30 PM |
| i'm going to have to apologize for my ignorance as is often necessary. ____________________
fucking classy.
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Monolycus
Fanatic  Posts: 580 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 5/9/2006 at 09:07 PM |
@feral
I don't comment on most of your points because you have never taken
correction gracefully and the majority of the opinions that get batted
around here don't make a tiny rat's ass worth of difference.
But this argument you're proposing is no different than the time a 14-year
old who got on here and wailed about how much harder this generation has it
than any generation before... because his problems were "different" (and
somehow, therefore, "worse") than the ones his parents had.
Technology has always been pervasive in any culture... that's why
archaeologists tend to name cultures after the dominant mode of
technology... and people have always been reliant upon what they
do and have become resistant to change.
To put the crux of your argument into a handy syllogism:
Digital technology is more dynamic (viz. changes in form) than previous
modes of technology have been, and it seems to be ubiquitous, therefore we
could not live without it.
Hogwash. Doesn't even follow linearly... and while I hear this same
argument from teenagers I teach who weren't alive a mere twenty years and
therefore can't envision a world without ATMs, cell phones, software moguls
and MTV... I do remember one and you should, too. The fact that
most of these grand, sweeping changes have happened within the past fifteen
years alone should be evidence that we can live without them. Maybe you
don't want to live without your gameboy or Ipod, but this is a
pretty recent addiction and I'm pretty sure folk won't melt away into the
darkness if they have to go cold-turkey. Good lord, people said the same
thing about plastic back in the 1920's.
Muh. Software makes us soft. Muh. Must go back to cave and think. Is
fire friend? Muh. ____________________
"I believe that woman is planning to shoot me again."
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 5/9/2006 at 09:09 PM |
no not you paleface...
wikipedia and other encclopedias draw a very bold line between modern
techology and historical technology and so shall I
Historical technology... your flint spear head... before that was the
sahrpened stick... still worked... if your spear head fell off...you can
still STAB IT TO DEATH WITH THE STICK... and histroically... you had
different forms of sharp pointed sticks through out history (till
gunpowder) bronze, iron... spear and arrow heads... swords... ALL SHARP
POINTY THINGS... so... millions of years of technology making a BETTER
POINTY THING... Then... the head falls off... you can still STAB IT WITH A
SHARP UN TIPPED STICK
so... while not as efficient... you STILL have a shapr pointy thing that
you can hunt with... OR... sometimes a heavy blunt thing... if your sharp
thing broke... you neighbor porbably had one... and most people had more
than ONE POINTY THING to kill and hunt with... meaning... my pointy thing
breaks...I make a new one or borrow one and the village STILL
survives...
NOW... modern technology... levie... nice and simple...a wall buried in
dirt... but still complex in it's engineering... it broke... no one had a
spare pile of dirt on an engineered wall... thousands of peopel homeless
and dead.. but many of them still have pointy things... in many cases one
30 year old computer is all that runs a cities water system... and due to
the fact that the water is piped in from miles away... if that breaks...
LOTS OF PEOPLE DIE... or suffer horribly... I am not sayin that
intrinsically we need it... but we have built a house of technological
cards... that when you remove one... it all comes tumbling down... and many
more people die because of computer failure than pointyu thing failure...
and the average person cannot hunt, gather and survive without it... ____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
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Monolycus
Fanatic Posts: 580 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 5/9/2006 at 10:45 PM |
Okay, sure. They invented the word "apocalypse" just for Y2K and if people
fall over dead when the batteries in their laptops run out. Why not? We
live in a new age, as any self-referential definition will inform you.
This is a pretty aptly-named thread, anyway... and I got better low-tech
uses of my time. I'm off to see if I can still remember how to install the
batteries in a book. ____________________
"I believe that woman is planning to shoot me again."
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 6/9/2006 at 03:57 AM |
| Mono...there used to be a guy that would discuss this stuff and attempt to
make himself understood, and further a conversation using your name...
dunno what happened to my friend...but I miss him... when you hand your id
back to him... let me know... ____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 6/9/2006 at 04:04 AM |
I would edit, but that seems broken...
your scorn... is making the same point I am... that it is pathetic... but
your scorn for me... seems baseless... not sure what I did to earn
it...save for mourning... ____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
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Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
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gothicmorman
Fanatic  Posts: 233 Registered: 11/7/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 7/9/2006 at 06:15 PM |
Mono really does have a point on that one I think...
Granted that in the last 20 years technology has been more important in
society than it ever has, and more complicated technology has been coming
out. But that has been the same all throughout history. The rate of
inventions and new ideas has continually risen since the beginning of
whenever and 20 years from now it will be completely different again and
more technology will have been invented than in this 20 years. and the 20
years after that it will be again the same. there are many points in
history that people look at the world and think it's at some sort of peak
of technology but it just keeps going up and up and it's all the same
really, all one big technological continuous age. We are more dependant on
it now than ever... same thing will be true in another 20 years. So it
really never ends, just keeps getting bigger and faster.
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 8/9/2006 at 05:38 AM |
| GM: *grins* you basically stated... in a nutshell... mono and I both have
good points... which is what I was saying... ____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
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Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
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Schizo
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 897 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 9/9/2006 at 01:40 AM |
No, I see Feral's point (no pun intended.)
Human subsistence used to hinge on someone's possession of a pointy stick
or a heavy stick. You got the best one you could, but any pointy or heavy
stick would do in a pinch. We were used to foraging and hunting - we
depended on ourselves.
With today's technology, we no longer have to go out on hunting expeditions
or run our own farms - we just need to drive to the store and pick the
nicely packaged product off a shelf. We no longer know how to find our own
food within walking distance. This whole system is dependent on modern
transportation and electricity. As long as these are still available,
we're OK. But if we are no longer able to drive to the nearest grocery
store, or if the suppliers are no longer able to drive their product to the
store, or if electricity fails and refrigeration gets cut off, we're
screwed.
However, technology also protects us from a lot of the stuff that pointy
and heavy sticks were not able to. It creates bigger problems - it also
solves them.
I do think it is wise for a person to learn to subsist while cut off from
modern conveniences. While a huge apocalypse may never happen, there is
always the chance of a localized failure (even a drastic one, such as New
Orleans) that could potentially put you and your dependants at risk.
That is the weakness of the technology we have today - it is no longer
simple enough for the average person to be able to duplicate in usable
form, and most people do not know how to survive without it for long.
But of course, as much as a teenager my whine that it can't survive without
its ipod or cellphone, that is of course, bull. But we are frighteningly
dependent on the technologies that supply us with needs like food and heat.
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KittyGoesMrow
Fanatic  Posts: 218 Registered: 30/4/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 9/9/2006 at 01:10 PM |
omg i wanna punch that girl in the vagina O_o
Gahhhh... grow a fucking backbone.
Douchebag. ____________________
Anata ga sabishii toki, bokumo sabishii n da yo
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 9/9/2006 at 04:38 PM |
| KGM... did oyu bother to read the rest of the thread? ____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
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Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
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KittyGoesMrow
Fanatic Posts: 218 Registered: 30/4/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 9/9/2006 at 09:41 PM |
| *cough* No i didnt have time... x.x ____________________
Anata ga sabishii toki, bokumo sabishii n da yo
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Monolycus
Fanatic Posts: 580 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 10/9/2006 at 01:04 AM |
quote:
your scorn... is making the same point I am... that it is pathetic... but
your scorn for me... seems baseless... not sure what I did to earn
it...save for mourning...
And that's what I meant when I said you don't take correction
well... unless people are actively telling you that you're brilliant, it's
some kind of personal attack. Why bring up mourning? I didn't... and I
don't see having lost loved ones as making you particularly special. I
never said a damned thing about you personally, but it's not going to cause
me any lost sleep if you want to take it that way.
One thing I'm NOT going to do is get into any variation of the "You don't
like me!"- "You don't understand me!"- "I'll see your shot-in-the-stomach
and raise you one childhood-molestation!" debates. You're not fucking
special... I'm not fucking special... and if there's a truly special person
in this train-wreck of a planet, I haven't heard about them. What I am
is PISSED OFF at pseudo-intellectuals who don't offer any solutions
because EVERYTHING nowadays is "exceptional". EVERYTHING is "special". I
save every bowel movement I have for posterity because they are so
goddamned unique.
And while we sit here talking past one another and being "special" with our
exceptional new problems that nobody else could possibly ever understand,
everything around us swirls down into that little porcelain hole en
route to the most un-special extinction a dumbassed species could ever
achieve. And after having sat through more than a few self-congratulatory
conversations like this one, part of me truly and deeply believes that it
can't happen fast enough.
Incidentally... Bageant has finally put his finger on my exact
state of mind for the past few years. Short of staring at Munch's The
Scream, that is. I'll link to it, in case anyone gives a shit and has
a longer attention span than a retarded goldfish.
http://www.counterpunch.org/bageant09092006.html ____________________
"I believe that woman is planning to shoot me again."
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Starlight
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 618 Registered: 27/9/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 10/9/2006 at 02:01 AM |
| I liked waking up to find that link, Mono. It was nice to take a few
moments to absorb someone else's well-worded rage. It made me feel slightly
less alone in the cesspool. ____________________
"When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I've never
tried before." ~Mae West
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 10/9/2006 at 06:58 AM |
see... this is a discussion...not a lesson... I take correction well... but
in a discussion... it is point and counterpoint... when you take the
standpoint of "I am right, you are wrong, you cannot see it" and then
proceed to "correct" someone... I don't care who it is... that will
instantly get a bad reaction... because it wasn't a lesson... that stand
point is ARROGANT...
since it is a discussion... it requires more information than just "you are
wrong" ...it requires an EXPLANATION of your reasoning to make the person
see it from your standpoint...
reread what you wrote... it was snide and conescending with NO real
explanation or counterpoint...
don't correct me... talk to me... ____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
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Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 10/9/2006 at 07:01 AM |
As for bringing up mourning... it was that piece that I noticed your
scorn... it started there... therefore LOGICALLY... it is the only thing I
can think of that would cause this reaction...
____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
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Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
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Domkitten
Fanatic  Posts: 470 Registered: 23/9/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 10/9/2006 at 10:05 PM |
First, regardless of how interesting the epiphany that every consumer on
the planet (let’s be honest here and stop labeling the Americans for it
alone) is a monster, has this epiphany while driving near a mall. Is it to
the mall or against, I do not know, but to judge while doing the same
bullshit monkey thing that everyone else is doing, and to be just as much
of a monster while doing it, is a ploy. So what for his screaming man. We
are all monsters at some time or another. His screaming man is just so much
recognition of the monster in his own head.
Secondly, I find it difficult to sit and read the claptrap of someone who
is not “so fucking special” go off about how not special they are, when in
reality that same person is just begging everyone to notice how special
they are. Through your anger you want to be important. Same bullshit as
paragraph one. You only call attention to yourself but your still a
monster.
Third, I find it odd that people who would like to rant on so much about
the advent of technology would use that selfsame technology to publish
their rant.
Far too much trying to have your cake and eat it too in this thread.
____________________
It's like kegel exercises for your throat.~Monolycus
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