MystryssRavynDarque
Extreme Fanatic   Posts: 648 Registered: 24/9/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 3/7/2005 at 12:37 AM |
How many vegans who don't eat eggs are pro choice when it comes to
abortion?
Some say eggs are future chickens...so what are they aborting when they
abort the fetus? A future baby right?
Strange things I think about late at night. ____________________
"People always say what we are looking for is a meaning for life…I don't
think that's what we're looking for. I think what we're looking for is the
experience of being alive." -Joseph Campbell
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Sticupus
Fanatic   Posts: 254 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 3/7/2005 at 11:49 AM |
| ehh, well that all depends on the individual. I have "new age", "bisexual"
friends who preach non-conformity all the time yet smoke and shop at
wal-mart for everything under the sun. They just don't think about all of
their actions and all of their morals and beliefs as a whole to make up
their own person. Other people consider the true reasons behind Roe v. Wade
and its effect on women as reasons to support the decision, while they
don't eat eggs because they feel all animal based food is creepy. It's a
combination of thoughtless fucktard-ery and personal tastes and convictions
for reasons why people go around such a problem as they do. The real good
question is why are "pro-lifers" who actually 99% have strong religious
beliefs aren't into animal rights more often? Don't they care about all of
gods creatures? I'm sure they do, but they still make egg salad for the
church picnic. ____________________
The OBOLISK is Divine.
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 4/7/2005 at 11:44 AM |
I'll explain it for you darlin. The concept isn't just "eggs are future
chickens". It's animal products in general. Most vegans (myself included)
aren't concerned with whether or not eggs will make more chickens. We're
concerned how using the hens to obtain the eggs is rather brutal and unfair
to any sentient being, especially with factory farms becoming an almost
universal supply of products on the market. The conditions of the hens who
supply the eggs are horrible, but the eggs you get at the grocery store are
sterile. They haven't come in contact with roosters, so there's no risk of
getting a fertilized egg in your omelette. Hence the "future chickens"
theory isn't arguable.
I won't speak for other vegans or vegetarians, but I'm pro choice. What
I'm tired of hearing is that pro choice means pro abortion. Abortions for
everyone!! Hooray!! What I'm FOR is the ability to make a choice when
other options have failed, or when the choice to protect yourself from
possible pregnancy is denied (rape, etc). I'm for personal responsibility
to not let yourself GET into that situation to begin with, and the same
personal responsibility when it's time for a decision to be made. If you
don't want to get an abortion, don't want to give the child to adoption,
and keep the child, it's your choice and your responsibility and I don't
want to hear complaining (I live in Wa State, and believe me I hear more
single mothers bitching about their lot in life I want to induce brain
damage). I am not only pro choice, but pro mandatory birth control. Take
a lesson from Bob Barker, have your child chemically or mentally spayed or
neutered until they can prove they can be a fit parent. I know that as of
right this moment and the years before, I would not be a "fit" parent.
Hence I have no children yet and have taken steps to avoid putting myself
in a situation where I would have to "choose". Birth control fails, this
I know, which is why there is abortion, adoption, and parenting classes on
the fly.
If a vegan produces the "future chickens" argument to you, please slap them
for me, as they are idiots. The argument is treatment of our animal
charges, and doing what we can to lessen suffering of those at our mercy
who've done nothing to us. It's the USE of animals for products and the
callous ways they are "collected" that is the problem.
Sticcipus, don't bother arguing with the righteous. All you do is feed
thoughtless conviction, their fear (which makes them more zealous), and
entertain them. Give them an inch and they'll run a mile a minute. I
stopped depleting myself for them years ago.
[Edited on 7/4/2005 by bettie_x] ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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Abbadon
Fanatic  Posts: 499 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 4/7/2005 at 12:06 PM |
| I think you'll find that the chicken eggs people eat are in fact
unfertilised and therefore are excessively unlikely to develope into
chickens. ____________________
Light is changing to shadow, and casting a shroud over all we have known.
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 4/7/2005 at 09:30 PM |
| barring immaculate conception, tho I've yet to see that in the tabloids. ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 5/7/2005 at 09:15 AM |
| Yeah, but most vegans aren't eating fetuses either ____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
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Anonymous
 Posts: 116 Registered: 14/4/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 5/7/2005 at 10:46 AM |
I've gotten a bloody egg with a tiny chicken inside before from the grocery
store. Roosters must be sneaking in somehow...
Either that, or it was a miracle!
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Kira
Member   Posts: 149 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 5/7/2005 at 10:47 AM |
| Dammit, that was me. ____________________
Wind me up and make me crawl to you, tie me up until I call to you.
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 5/7/2005 at 09:46 PM |
Feral, I could start. I had this discussion with someone at work.
Cannibalism doesn't count!
And Kira, you just may have sunny side upped our savior. ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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BlueLinn
Fanatic  Posts: 246 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 7/7/2005 at 03:24 PM |
| well now, some grocery stores have "organic" eggs or just eggs that have
been purchased from a farm for the grocery store and that is sometimes just
the end result. You don't catch it in time and you have a little chicken
in your omlette, ____________________
When the world is over, will we wonder how it began?
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 8/7/2005 at 11:18 PM |
| The main belief system behind vegetarianism/veganism is that if you don't
have to use another living thing to live yourself, then don't, free range
or not. The sad thing is linn, that most of the animal products in the
grocery stores DON'T come from family farms anymore, they come from factory
farms, and "free range" and "family farm" products, which used to be
cheaper, now cost dearly in order for that family farm or free range farm
to survive, and are seen as "specialty" items and is no longer the norm. I
do know that safeway co., tho they still use more "factory" type farms,
does independent suprise inspections of their animal product supply
facilities to ensure "humane" living and termination conditions.
Fertilized eggs can occasionally be found in grocery store eggs, but it's
rare and unlikely. ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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MystryssRavynDarque
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 648 Registered: 24/9/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 9/7/2005 at 01:07 AM |
| A carton of Organic Free Range eggs runs at about 7 dollars at the grocery
store here. ____________________
"People always say what we are looking for is a meaning for life…I don't
think that's what we're looking for. I think what we're looking for is
the
experience of being alive." -Joseph Campbell
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 9/7/2005 at 11:28 PM |
| well hon you're one an island, thers' not a lot of room for livestock. I
bet you get mangoes sugar and coconuts cheapre. Lemme at em. ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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BlueLinn
Fanatic Posts: 246 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 10/7/2005 at 11:31 AM |
it is true that now more and more of the organically grown fruits and
vegitables/every food product is becoming more expensive because of the
monopolization of factories. But yes, on the general note, not many people
will ask... "hey, where did my hamburger come from?" People just aren't
realizing the risks we take each day by consuming what large corporations
produce.
My friend Fury has been looking into immunizations more and more as her
daughter grows older and she is finding that some of the immunizations may
cause more harm than help. On a general note, we may need and try to be
more concious, however through money constraints or laziness, sometimes it
is not always feasible to do what you know or believe is right. ____________________
When the world is over, will we wonder how it began?
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 11/7/2005 at 08:26 PM |
| Well then again, there are also people who are vegan/vegetarian for health,
and it's not a social thing at all (re: I'm NOT one of them, I'm terrible
to myself, my food is just healthy by proxy), and could potentially be
against abortion because it's bad for the baby's health (...going to
hell...so many jokes) and there are studies to see if there is a link
between abortion and uterine/cervical/breast cancer, as getting pregnant
floods the system with hormones and whatnot, and aborting a fetus abruptly
STOPS that flow of hormones and whatnot prematurely and can cause future
problems from the abrupt chemical imbalance. Something to think on. ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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daria_4
Member  Posts: 96 Registered: 29/7/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 12/7/2005 at 11:25 PM |
There have been ongoing studies about that link for quite a while now, but
to my knowledge (not that I'm an expert, but I read a bit on the subject),
the link has yet to be proven. As far as I know, there's not even much of a
corollary yet.
I did read somewhere that in some of the states that require counseling and
waiting periods before abortions, some clinics have been forced to give
pamphlets that say the abortion/cancer link has been proven. It sickens me
that our government can put out false medical information to people.
I'm gonna stop now before I go off on a completely different tangent...
bettie_x, thanks for the explanation in your first post. I think I knew
what you said, but had never really articulated it that way. My college
roommate was a vegetarian, and for her, it was because she really liked
animals and just didn't want to eat them. She never gave other people who
ate meat problems about it, though--which was cool. I'm not a vegetarian,
but I think I have vegetarian tendencies, which were amplified when I lived
with one for four years. I dunno, sometimes I just get grossed out by meat.
____________________
"I've told you before, I don't comprehend religion, although
conviction is a concept I'm beginning to get. In any case, a person
with a real religious conviction is, I propose, a religious convict,
and deserves locking up."
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Anonymous
Posts: 116 Registered: 14/4/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 15/7/2005 at 04:58 AM |
Always be careful with studies. Gay people have to deal with crap like that
all the time. Every time there is a "study" that shows a link between this
and that and being gay, we have to ask the questions "Who is doing this
study?" and "Why are they doing it?" This keeps things in check in case
someone finds a "Cause" and then try to find a "Cure". It actually doesn't
work that way, because being gay isn't like having blue eyes- there isn't a
gene, you "may" be born with it and it may grow with your developing
personality over time. The best out look is that sexual orientation is as
deep a part of your person as personality; you can't see where one part of
it "began" nor are there any exact reasons for it forming (nature/nurture)
and extracting it would kill the person, so that they would be like the
late zombie incarnation of Terri Schiavo.
If you give a study like that too much merit, you KNOW a white republican
man will be putting a new law up for vote called something like "The
Women's Protection from Uterine/Cervical/Breast Cancer Act" to make
abortion illegal buttered up in the guise of keeping America's women safe
from 'no-no part' cancer and having to work, living a horrible life without
bearing 3 kids and baking pies forever, terrorism, bullshit, etc.
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 15/7/2005 at 11:16 PM |
True, and like I said it was something that I heard something on that
wasn't proven but they were studying it, and I can see that the flux in
hormones of that nature could possibly have an ill effect. And I also know
that it would be another outlet for people of one bent or another to hide
an agenda under a different title with different "concerns". However, if
there is a risk it should be known and people made aware. Cigarettes cause
cancer, it's posted on the pack, and it's still legal (probably because a
religious organization hasnt' gotten a good hook on the "god hates smokers"
bit yet), however perhaps they could add abortion to this retarded "sin"
tax they apply to coffee, smokes, and gambling. I smell another revenue
stream.
I also read a short story titled "foet" once.....about a market in the
manufacturing of high class leather accessories that were made of tanned
foetal skin sold out of back rooms in high pricey rich people shops. It
was interesting.
Daria, you're welcome. Tho I have my moments, I'm not gonna shove it down
anyone's throat. I don't even think I have any friends that are even
vegetarian. And I also just got a second job waitressing in a steak house
*LOL* ooooo the irony runs thick in these parts. I see it as part of my
"infiltrate and destroy" agenda....they have no idea *MUAHAHAHAHA*
____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 17/7/2005 at 12:06 AM |
http://www.bancruelfarms.org/meatrix/
My husband found this link, it's disturbing in a cartoon kind of way while
making light of the situation at hand. Enjoy your propaganda  ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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Dolorosa
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 856 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 9/8/2005 at 05:24 AM |
You know Betty...that line about Immaculate Conception really stuck out in
my head...badly...
What if...what if the chickens had a Messiah...or whatever-the-fuck it's
called.
That would be awesome, because it would mean therewould be an
antipode...and that could just be fun. ____________________
In the valley of the Goats, the Goat Fucker is King
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