The_Truth
Coward Posts: 10 Registered: 17/3/2004 Status: Offline
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posted on 17/3/2004 at 11:46 PM |
There is tons of bullshit out there and it usuall;y comes in two opposite
extremes.
From neo-nazi conservatives to pro-khmer rouge marxists, from Atheists to
Christian fundamentalists who believe looking through a telescope will send
you to hell and from Spiritualists who want to force everyone to abandon
technology, sleep in mud and wipe their asses with leaves to materialists
who deny the existence of their own soul.
Frankly these opposite extremes are bullshit aswell, there is no happy
medium or a balance between two extremes. In order to eradicate bullshit a
person must not give a fuck about anything which is completely irrelevant
to begin with. Just because somone ranks between the 2 extremes in terms of
their opinion it doesn't mean they are right. You have to go back to
basics.
For instance you want to know whether it is better to be a materialist or a
spiritualist. Very simple, there is no inbetweem, no left wing or right
wing view, just the correct one. The correct opinion is as follows, you
are sentient, you do not know what causes sentience and so far it seems we
are too stupid to come up with answers. Try examining a brain if you care
that much. Oh yeah, magic is bullshit and I think you can tell what is
magic and superstition and what isn't. Also something is going on as it
seems that sentience should not exist in the universe, yet it does, you
just don't know what is going on, admit it.
kthx |
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Domkitten
Fanatic Posts: 470 Registered: 23/9/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 23/3/2004 at 04:17 AM |
Britiva you beat me to the punch, so I'll just add this which you missed
and which happend to be my favorite.
Bunny Lebowski: Ulli doesn't care about anything. He's a Nihilist.
The Dude: Ah. Must be exhausting.
____________________ It's like kegel exercises for your throat.~Monolycus |
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 23/3/2004 at 03:02 AM |
Mono: super size it man... the entire flick is like that... ____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist |
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Monolycus
Fanatic Posts: 580 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 21/3/2004 at 04:03 AM |
LadyC (I presume): There's a problem with attributing things to Socrates.
In Plato's dialogues, he uses his old mentor Socrates as a mouthpiece for
his own ideas. Because of this, Plato frequently gets attributed to
Socrates. That is also why I made sure to say "I don't think Socrates ever
said that"... and I still don't. The page you provided contained another
translated bit of "Socrates" (viz. "He is richest who is content with the
least") which comes from one of the Platonic dialogues (Jesus, I miss
having access to my reference books!) The entire passage is the character
of Socrates (as opposed to the historical Socrates) talking about how
desire is like trying to fill a pot with a hole in the bottom. Nice
thought, but it is all Plato. As for the original quotation, it doesn't
strike me as something either of them would have propounded, but I am not
prepared to back that up. I suspect it is one of the many, many
miscellaneous aphorisms that gets erroneously attributed... but I could be
wrong about it.
Britva: Very nice. Sadly, I never made it past the medium-sized Lebowski,
but if those quotes are any indication I will have to super size my order
next time.
~M. |
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Britva
Moderator Posts: 37 Registered: 1/8/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 20/3/2004 at 10:34 PM |
A few select quotes about nihilists:
"Nihilists! Fuck me. I mean, say what you like about the tenets of National
Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos."
"We believe in nothing, Lebowski. Nothing. And tomorrow we come back and we
cut off your johnson!"
Donny: Are these the Nazis, Walter?
Walter Sobchak: No, Donny, these men are nihilists. There's nothing to be
afraid of.
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Anonymous
Posts: 116 Registered: 14/4/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 20/3/2004 at 01:15 PM |
Wolfe: I guess I'll have ask my old philosophy professor. Socrates is who
he attributed the quote to.
This person seems to agree: http://www.uwm.edu/~dsigafus/page3.html
But this is digressing from the point, so I'll call it a day.
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 20/3/2004 at 11:05 AM |
but at least a nihilist is never disappointed...
Though the nihilist philosophy was developed by a warrior culture and they
reveled in it... they were joyous about it...almost like klingons... it was
not a depressive way to look at the world, but instead an overly realistic
one for thier time...
I am annoyed by people that label themselves but shoose the wronge lable...
todays nihilists are nothing more than clinically depressed, or worse...
pretenders ____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist |
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callei
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 20/3/2004 at 08:22 AM |
"If self-fulfilling prophecy is your bag, then by all means, live the
Nihilist dream. " (mono)
its been my experience that they also tend to hope it will raise thier
chances of getting laid, but, being true to its inherant self-fulfilling
prophecy-ness, it lowers thier chances, proportionate to thier
vocalization. Happy people get laid more than sad, mean, or desperate
people. ____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away. |
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Monolycus
Fanatic Posts: 580 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 20/3/2004 at 02:22 AM |
Squid: I'll try to be as delicate about this as I am able. The problem
with Nihilism is that it is a reductio ad absurdum of Fatalism. It makes a
great fall-back position for people who just want to be contentious or a
great security blanket for people who don't want to be bothered to try to
wrap their brains around a bigger picture. If self-fulfilling prophecy is
your bag, then by all means, live the Nihilist dream. To my way of
thinking, a militant Nihilist is very much like a vocal vegan... I have
some very deep doubts about how genuinely they believe what they are
saying, but they have discovered it is a tremendously effective way to
annoy people very quickly.
T_T: Exactly how "knowable" anything is has been at the core of most
philosophical thought since the Milesian school of thinkers. Although I
have some fundamental disagreements with many of his conclusions, you might
want to begin with Rene Descartes who tackled that very question right off
the bat. If you want to be extreme about the issue, and nobody really
does, then I invite you to wander into the middle of a busy highway since
you can't really "prove" that oncoming traffic actually exists or will harm
you if it hits you. If you are going to behave as though there is an
objective reality anyway (and if you have made it this far in life without
getting yourself killed, you already do), you might as well accept that it
can be understood in either a limited or an unlimited way (there is an
article in one of the backlogs where Squid, Comedian, Rogue, myself and
some others discussed this... I'll see if I can find it). What you seem to
be doing is accepting that if perfect understanding of the world is
impossible (debatable... Squid would tell you that it is not impossible),
then an imperfect understanding is worse than none at all. I would have to
call bullshit there. Anyway, best of luck... and when you are at a very
comfortable point, meditate upon the extant fragments of Herakleitos "the
Dark" of Ephesos.
LadyC: I don't think Socrates ever said that.
~M. |
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LadyCygnet
Fanatic Posts: 287 Registered: 31/10/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 20/3/2004 at 01:56 AM |
Socrates had it right when he said, "true wisdom is knowing that you know
nothing."
I'm not going to run around wearing an "Ignorant and Proud" t-shirt of
anything, but I'm not going to pretend I have the ultimate answers to
anything.
Life's a continuous learning process, Truth. Schizoi is a wonderful person
to learn from, as is Meranda_Jade. Rogue and Monolycus are two people
that I'd pester for good philosophical debates, and Feral and Anya seem to
enjoy the role of devil's advocate. And I still believe Cellei is the
reigning Queen of Often-Overlooked Common Sense. In all honesty, everyone
has something useful to teach everyone else.
Just look around, listen, and share. ____________________ "To Live is to Annoy." -- Rev. Lambert Reilly, Archabbot, St. Meinrad Abbey |
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Anya
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 19/3/2004 at 11:52 PM |
Hate to break it to you, but I do not really think there is any
philosophies that're not biased. Everyone is biased to an extent, while
some are more biased than others. I'm biased. You're biased. Everyone is
biased. We see things through our own eyes, though to an extent -could-
see through other people's eyes. In the end, though, we're all
biased...whether to the extremes or not.
What one can do, though, is look at all the sources, look at the different
points of biasness, and come to their own conclusion and where they
stand...and why they stand on that position.
Maybe I misread your post, but it seemed you wanted an unbiased philosophy
or something...
Hrmm, list, list...I'm not an expert, but I have a share of philosophers
that I like. One person I really like is Sun Tzu...others I like are Anton
LaVey, the Transcendental and Anti-Transcendental authors, Lao-Tzu,
hrmm...there's more, I'll think on it all later. I tend to be a mindless
philosopher myself, as you can tell through my posts. *grin*
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callei
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 19/3/2004 at 08:42 PM |
you might want to expand your reading list of methods of knowing, a.k.a
philosophy. there are way more out there already that you seem to have
heard of yet. and it will help you see where others have failed when
building new world views.
There are a few members here that are into that and probably have a great
list of authors and websites, if you want someone to help point the way out
of ignorance. ____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away. |
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The_Truth
Coward Posts: 10 Registered: 17/3/2004 Status: Offline
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posted on 19/3/2004 at 12:22 PM |
Wow.
Your replies have really deepenned my understanding of not knowing
anything. I am a fundamentalist agnostic, in fact I have theorized for some
time that I am also stupid and ignorant. The belief that nothing can be
completely proven and the idea that only reasonning and scientific method
allow for our non-omnipotent intelligence to understand and predict our
surroundings and what is going on around us can be considerred as much
bullshit as any other 'extremist' belief, despite the fact that it is based
on my perceptions of reality.
Frankly this entire absolute agnostic dilemma yields the same results as
any normal person wonderring as to the reasonning of certain ideas, but a
little wiser. Though of course, with this wisdom, certain mistakes will not
be repeated.
I think philosophy should be scrapped and built up again, except this time
more abstractly, critically and unbiased, looking at every aspect of
determinning stuff, such as punctuation and why we believe certain things
are reasonable and others are not. |
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callei
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 18/3/2004 at 06:39 PM |
she really does. its the coolest thing ____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and
vampires
/>
away. |
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Kira
Member Posts: 149 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 18/3/2004 at 12:29 PM |
I save copies of the Watchtower to wrap presents in! Then I add my own
little thought bubbles to the pictures with a sharpie marker. ____________________ Wind me up and make me crawl to you, tie me up until I call to you. |
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IamSquid
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 658 Registered: 27/5/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 18/3/2004 at 12:25 PM |
Hey now, what's wrong with nihilism? ____________________
i wanted to die, and then it progressed into wanting everyone else to
die so i could watch, and then me die.
-ickgirl |
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Merry_Widow
Fanatic Posts: 598 Registered: 24/8/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 18/3/2004 at 12:03 PM |
*snicker* Don't Watch! Tower...oh man, that's priceless. ____________________ Okay, dazzle me. |
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callei
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 18/3/2004 at 10:05 AM |
that was unitarian of you wasnt it? mixed with whatever religion it is that
goes door to door. I wonder if thier publications are called the "dont
watch! tower".
____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and
vampires
/>
away. |
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Shmooth
Member Posts: 76 Registered: 23/1/2004 Status: Offline
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posted on 18/3/2004 at 08:48 AM |
So, you mean something distinguished from perception or thought?
If there is a consciousness distinguished from perception or thought, it is
the awareness of there being only perception and thought to understand that
there is something beyond this.
Meaning that whatever you perceive, is the shape of perception and
thought.
What's beyond this, is untouchable. Like pressing and feeling on a black
plastic bag, to try to understand what's inside it. Your fingers tell
your brain what's in the bag.
In the same way, in this world, you are just like your fingers.
The amazing thing is that it's all conceivable.
If you have to call any result of this consciousness by a name, then you're
lost.
Magic is a name.
But I promise you there is a god.
Yet I am of no religion.
Yet things said by Jesus, are true.
Remember to love.
And knock on doors, and they will open.
What he said is true. ____________________ Jameel |
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Zero
Fanatic Posts: 459 Registered: 15/2/2004 Status: Offline
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posted on 18/3/2004 at 08:26 AM |
I had no idea you could get laid by looking smart.....College here I
"come". ____________________ "It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak." ~
The Sandman, Dream Country |
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