There is tons of bullshit out there and it usuall;y comes in two opposite
extremes.
From neo-nazi conservatives to pro-khmer rouge marxists, from Atheists to
Christian fundamentalists who believe looking through a telescope will send
you to hell and from Spiritualists who want to force everyone to abandon
technology, sleep in mud and wipe their asses with leaves to materialists
who deny the existence of their own soul.
Frankly these opposite extremes are bullshit aswell, there is no happy
medium or a balance between two extremes. In order to eradicate bullshit a
person must not give a fuck about anything which is completely irrelevant
to begin with. Just because somone ranks between the 2 extremes in terms of
their opinion it doesn't mean they are right. You have to go back to
basics.
For instance you want to know whether it is better to be a materialist or a
spiritualist. Very simple, there is no inbetweem, no left wing or right
wing view, just the correct one. The correct opinion is as follows, you
are sentient, you do not know what causes sentience and so far it seems we
are too stupid to come up with answers. Try examining a brain if you care
that much. Oh yeah, magic is bullshit and I think you can tell what is
magic and superstition and what isn't. Also something is going on as it
seems that sentience should not exist in the universe, yet it does, you
just don't know what is going on, admit it.
...trying to stay on track here....uhm, well it could be said that by
saying that since YOU don't know what's going on nobody ELSE does is also
an "extreme" in it's own way.
To a spiritualist of course they KNOW, same with *enter religion or creed
here*. You could be wrong, they could be wrong, but it all comes down to
point of view.
Extremists are actually quite small in number, they're just noisier than
the rest. I suggest earplugs, or do what I did and relocate to bumfuck
nowhere, where you're biggest gripe is your neighbor's proclivity for
burning things in his yard, and it doesn't really matter cuz you can't see
his stupid ass through the trees to begin with.
[Edited on 3/18/2004 by bettie_x]
____________________ Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
LadyCygnet
Fanatic
Posts: 287 Registered: 31/10/2003 Status: Offline
posted on 18/3/2004 at 01:07 AM
*is confused*
I don't mean to come across as rude, Truth, but I seem to have missed your
point somwhere in the text. Maybe it's the Benadryl talking, but I seem to
be lost. Could you reiterate your point for the rest of us, please?
____________________ "To Live is to Annoy." -- Rev. Lambert Reilly, Archabbot, St. Meinrad Abbey
Schizo
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 897 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 18/3/2004 at 03:06 AM
I think what he's saying is, fuck all these philosophies and religions, the
fact is, we just don't know.
Although he then turns around and lays down the law about magic. Which
leads me to believe that maybe he DOES know. Or at least thinks he
does.
Personally, I don't care for people who think they've got all the right
answers, even if their answers are all "I don't know." Maybe you don't
know. And maybe I do. Or maybe I don't, who cares. Just don't assume
that the things you don't know, no one knows.
It's very arrogant and silly.
And how do you KNOW that magic doesn't exist? Hmmmmmmm? And what if it
doesn't exist for you (i.e., you can't do it) but it does for someone else?
Have you searched the entire universe and looked into the soul of every
being therein and proved beyond any shadow of any doubt that the phenomenon
called magic does not exist? And if you have done that, please don't tell
me that you haven't also figured out a little more about sentience, after
all that research.
As for me, I do what works for me, and I have some theories about why they
work for me, but if they get disproven I won't cry. And I'm certainly not
going to tell everyone else that what I think is THE TRUTH, even if it is
the truth, because what works for me may not work for someone else, and, in
fact, they might think differently because they, I don't know, maybe KNOW
MORE than me!
Damn fundamentalist agnostics...
____________________ "You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of
girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"
Monolycus
Fanatic
Posts: 580 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 18/3/2004 at 05:12 AM
I apologise in advance if this is too lowbrow a response, but it doesn't
sound like you are "philosophisating" (sic) bullshit or much of anything
else. Unless I am misreading you, you are espousing something between
nihilism and ethical relativism. Neither are very exotic or enlightening,
but they are at least fairly easy for A.O.A. to grasp.
~M.
callei
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 18/3/2004 at 06:43 AM
hmm sounded more like senioritis to me, the strain that people not in the
top 1/3 of thier class get. "i just spend 12 years doing this crap for
what? fuck you I want to get laid and get drunk."
____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.
Domkitten
Fanatic
Posts: 470 Registered: 23/9/2002 Status: Offline
posted on 18/3/2004 at 08:05 AM
Callei, I know that you didn't mean to offend or anything, but let's not
talk about getting laid or drunk like they are bad things.
Philosohpisation though, that's just such and awfully big word. You must be
an Alpha. I'm so glad I'm not an Alpha.
I'd write more but I'm already bored.
____________________ It's like kegel exercises for your throat.~Monolycus
callei
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 18/3/2004 at 08:21 AM
oh goodness! THAT was not my intent at all! im all for a workable lifestyle
philosophy, especially if it includes sex. i was thinking more the
difference between the "going to college to get sex by looking smart", the
"going to college and hoping to get sex by looking smart", and the
"skipping college because there is already enough sex here right now"
sections of a graduating class.
____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.
Zero
Fanatic
Posts: 459 Registered: 15/2/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 18/3/2004 at 08:26 AM
I had no idea you could get laid by looking smart.....College here I
"come".
____________________ "It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak." ~
The Sandman, Dream Country
Shmooth
Member
Posts: 76 Registered: 23/1/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 18/3/2004 at 08:48 AM
So, you mean something distinguished from perception or thought?
If there is a consciousness distinguished from perception or thought, it is
the awareness of there being only perception and thought to understand that
there is something beyond this.
Meaning that whatever you perceive, is the shape of perception and
thought.
What's beyond this, is untouchable. Like pressing and feeling on a black
plastic bag, to try to understand what's inside it. Your fingers tell
your brain what's in the bag.
In the same way, in this world, you are just like your fingers.
The amazing thing is that it's all conceivable.
If you have to call any result of this consciousness by a name, then you're
lost.
Magic is a name.
But I promise you there is a god.
Yet I am of no religion.
Yet things said by Jesus, are true.
Remember to love.
And knock on doors, and they will open.
What he said is true.
____________________ Jameel
callei
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 18/3/2004 at 10:05 AM
that was unitarian of you wasnt it? mixed with whatever religion it is that
goes door to door. I wonder if thier publications are called the "dont
watch! tower".
____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and
vampires
/>
away.
i wanted to die, and then it progressed into wanting everyone else to
die so i could watch, and then me die.
-ickgirl
Kira
Member
Posts: 149 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 18/3/2004 at 12:29 PM
I save copies of the Watchtower to wrap presents in! Then I add my own
little thought bubbles to the pictures with a sharpie marker.
____________________ Wind me up and make me crawl to you, tie me up until I call to you.
callei
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 18/3/2004 at 06:39 PM
she really does. its the coolest thing
____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and
vampires
/>
away.
The_Truth
Coward
Posts: 10 Registered: 17/3/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 19/3/2004 at 12:22 PM
Wow.
Your replies have really deepenned my understanding of not knowing
anything. I am a fundamentalist agnostic, in fact I have theorized for some
time that I am also stupid and ignorant. The belief that nothing can be
completely proven and the idea that only reasonning and scientific method
allow for our non-omnipotent intelligence to understand and predict our
surroundings and what is going on around us can be considerred as much
bullshit as any other 'extremist' belief, despite the fact that it is based
on my perceptions of reality.
Frankly this entire absolute agnostic dilemma yields the same results as
any normal person wonderring as to the reasonning of certain ideas, but a
little wiser. Though of course, with this wisdom, certain mistakes will not
be repeated.
I think philosophy should be scrapped and built up again, except this time
more abstractly, critically and unbiased, looking at every aspect of
determinning stuff, such as punctuation and why we believe certain things
are reasonable and others are not.
callei
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 19/3/2004 at 08:42 PM
you might want to expand your reading list of methods of knowing, a.k.a
philosophy. there are way more out there already that you seem to have
heard of yet. and it will help you see where others have failed when
building new world views.
There are a few members here that are into that and probably have a great
list of authors and websites, if you want someone to help point the way out
of ignorance.
____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and
vampires
/>
away.
Anya
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 19/3/2004 at 11:52 PM
Hate to break it to you, but I do not really think there is any
philosophies that're not biased. Everyone is biased to an extent, while
some are more biased than others. I'm biased. You're biased. Everyone is
biased. We see things through our own eyes, though to an extent -could-
see through other people's eyes. In the end, though, we're all
biased...whether to the extremes or not.
What one can do, though, is look at all the sources, look at the different
points of biasness, and come to their own conclusion and where they
stand...and why they stand on that position.
Maybe I misread your post, but it seemed you wanted an unbiased philosophy
or something...
Hrmm, list, list...I'm not an expert, but I have a share of philosophers
that I like. One person I really like is Sun Tzu...others I like are Anton
LaVey, the Transcendental and Anti-Transcendental authors, Lao-Tzu,
hrmm...there's more, I'll think on it all later. I tend to be a mindless
philosopher myself, as you can tell through my posts. *grin*
LadyCygnet
Fanatic
Posts: 287 Registered: 31/10/2003 Status: Offline
posted on 20/3/2004 at 01:56 AM
Socrates had it right when he said, "true wisdom is knowing that you know
nothing."
I'm not going to run around wearing an "Ignorant and Proud" t-shirt of
anything, but I'm not going to pretend I have the ultimate answers to
anything.
Life's a continuous learning process, Truth. Schizoi is a wonderful person
to learn from, as is Meranda_Jade. Rogue and Monolycus are two people
that I'd pester for good philosophical debates, and Feral and Anya seem to
enjoy the role of devil's advocate. And I still believe Cellei is the
reigning Queen of Often-Overlooked Common Sense. In all honesty, everyone
has something useful to teach everyone else.
Just look around, listen, and share.
____________________ "To Live is to Annoy." -- Rev. Lambert Reilly, Archabbot, St. Meinrad Abbey
Monolycus
Fanatic
Posts: 580 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 20/3/2004 at 02:22 AM
Squid: I'll try to be as delicate about this as I am able. The problem
with Nihilism is that it is a reductio ad absurdum of Fatalism. It makes a
great fall-back position for people who just want to be contentious or a
great security blanket for people who don't want to be bothered to try to
wrap their brains around a bigger picture. If self-fulfilling prophecy is
your bag, then by all means, live the Nihilist dream. To my way of
thinking, a militant Nihilist is very much like a vocal vegan... I have
some very deep doubts about how genuinely they believe what they are
saying, but they have discovered it is a tremendously effective way to
annoy people very quickly.
T_T: Exactly how "knowable" anything is has been at the core of most
philosophical thought since the Milesian school of thinkers. Although I
have some fundamental disagreements with many of his conclusions, you might
want to begin with Rene Descartes who tackled that very question right off
the bat. If you want to be extreme about the issue, and nobody really
does, then I invite you to wander into the middle of a busy highway since
you can't really "prove" that oncoming traffic actually exists or will harm
you if it hits you. If you are going to behave as though there is an
objective reality anyway (and if you have made it this far in life without
getting yourself killed, you already do), you might as well accept that it
can be understood in either a limited or an unlimited way (there is an
article in one of the backlogs where Squid, Comedian, Rogue, myself and
some others discussed this... I'll see if I can find it). What you seem to
be doing is accepting that if perfect understanding of the world is
impossible (debatable... Squid would tell you that it is not impossible),
then an imperfect understanding is worse than none at all. I would have to
call bullshit there. Anyway, best of luck... and when you are at a very
comfortable point, meditate upon the extant fragments of Herakleitos "the
Dark" of Ephesos.