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Author: Subject: The next life

Fanatic





Posts: 522
Registered: 6/7/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 25/7/2003 at 03:05 PM
Though this topic may have been dabbled in here and there I haven’t really seen a thread dedicated to sharing specifically the ideals of a afterlife so here is one: Do you feel there’s a ensuing life after this one? What do you think happens?

 

____________________
but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living
 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 856
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 31/7/2003 at 04:39 PM
I know nothin' and I doubt anyone knows any facts of the matter anyhow, but I have my hopes. I'm a big fan of reincarnation...when I finally kick it for good, I'd like to start all over again...with no recollection of my past sins or graces. Tabula Rasa.
I have a hard time believing in heaven...it sounds like a cop out to me. But thats just me.
And a hell? Fuck...do enough bad things while your alive and you build your own baby hell right inside of yourself, with you as the VIP.
I don't know...but there are days when I dream about starting over completely.
All I do know is, when you get close to it...it can be really fucking scary.

 

____________________
In the valley of the Goats, the Goat Fucker is King

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 656
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 31/7/2003 at 01:52 PM
Bettie: I see myself agreeing with you. There's a lot of people out there that are trying to monopolize religion and there has been since the Dark Ages. I'm not all up for that "give me money and you go to Heaven" thing. What does money have to do with spiritual attainment? Ah well.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 656
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 31/7/2003 at 01:48 PM
Call my ideas unpopular, but I believe that Purgatori/Purgatory is quite similar to Reincarnation. From what my family understood it as, it is the place where we correct mistakes and perfect ourself for Heaven. That's the biggest idea surrounding Reincarnation according to a lot of sources.

I'm very skeptic about past life, but I do believe that we have a chance to start over if we mess up. My mom does not believe in Reincarnation for she thinks people will just mess up even more - I disagree for one, and if I believe that of we completely start over good as new, how can we mess up again and again? Once more, these are just my beliefs, but I do not see the hurt in believing...even if we do just end up dying.

I measure my deeds on a Karmic scale...I cannot say if anyone else's Karma is good or bad, nor can I say I am better than anyone else.


 

Member




Posts: 96
Registered: 29/7/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 31/7/2003 at 01:02 PM
quote:
I don't believe in the idea of purgatory though. Didn't the church add purgatory to the "afterlife" list as a way of attracting more followers since the ideal of either going to Heaven or Hell turned away numbers too great?



I'm not sure if/why/when they added it, but I do remember hearing something about using the idea as a way to get more money... As in, someone you love dies, they go to purgatory, you give more money, we (the clergy) pray them into heaven faster than we would have otherwise. I think that was one of those things they did back in the Dark Ages, though. It's not something I've heard of being practiced recently.

This is all hearsay on my part, though. I am neither Catholic, a recovering--err, former Catholic, nor a scholar of religion(s).

 

____________________
"I've told you before, I don't comprehend religion, although conviction is a concept I'm beginning to get. In any case, a person with a real religious conviction is, I propose, a religious convict, and deserves locking up."

 

Fanatic




Posts: 522
Registered: 6/7/2002
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  posted on 31/7/2003 at 12:48 AM
*can't sleep*

I feel as though when we die there are sorts of other "worlds" we can go to. We can be stuck in limbo {Earth}, "Heaven" or "Hell." Keep in mind that I was born and raised a christian and even though I don't follow Christianity I still see the afterlife in those sorts of things.

I don't believe in the idea of purgatory though. Didn't the church add purgatory to the "afterlife" list as a way of attracting more followers since the ideal of either going to Heaven or Hell turned away numbers too great?

All I hope is that the next life will be peaceful, filled with sleep and comfy beds...and that you can reunited with those you’ve lost.

[Edited on 7/31/2003 by AloneSoul]

 

____________________
SRC="http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/snes/ff6/images/characters/kefka.gi
f"> size=1> but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living

 

Fanatic




Posts: 598
Registered: 24/8/2002
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  posted on 30/7/2003 at 07:20 PM
When I die, I want to hang around and haunt the place. And I want to go the whole nine yards with it, rattling chains, ghastly noises, hallways that stretch on forever, creepy clown dolls under the bed, writing obscure stuff on mirrors. I think it sounds like loads of fun.
Pending that, I'll probably just end up sitting around on my ass. As in life, so in death, or so someone whose black was blacker than my blackest black once told me.

 

____________________
Okay, dazzle me.

 

Member




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Registered: 29/7/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 30/7/2003 at 06:01 PM
I'm not sure that I hold a particular belief concerning another existance beyond the one I'm locked into at the moment.
I do have some hopes for it--not that I want to "live forever," though. If there is an afterlife, I only hope that one's "soul" (to use a familiar term) has the option to end. To quit, as it were. In much the same way that believing in life everlasting (in any myriad of forms) is comforting to some, the idea of oblivion gives me that same little warm fuzzy inside.
I like what Schizo said about maybe getting a choice. It reminds me of the atheist from On a Pale Horse whose soul simply dissipated in the hands of Thanatos rather than going on to Heaven, Hell, or Purgatory. I certainly hope I dissolve out of "being" completely.

 

____________________
"I've told you before, I don't comprehend religion, although
conviction is a concept I'm beginning to get. In any case, a person
with a real religious conviction is, I propose, a religious convict,
and deserves locking up."

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 897
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 30/7/2003 at 05:25 PM
Good to see you posting, Rogue! You've been pretty quiet lately. We've missed you.

I like your notions about afterlife.

Maybe you get a choice of what kind of afterlife you get. If you're into heaven, then heaven. If you want another shot, then reincarnation. I personally would like to be a ghost for a while, and check up on people, and make some interesting stories for my still-alive friends to tell each other before I move on to another life.

And maybe those poor souls who want to end it all truly get to, instead of going from the frying pan straight into the fiery pit, like I was always taught.

But I think more likely they get another life, and another chance to learn the lesson they should have learned from the life they threw away. That seems more fitting.

 

____________________
"You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"

 

Member




Posts: 199
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 30/7/2003 at 01:08 PM
My worthless experience and opinions follow:

There is something that makes a being a being and not just an animated body, and this thing is not lost when the thing we call death occurs. I met my grandfather ten years after his death when I was five, and prior to seeing any pictures of him. I think there are many options available including reincarnation, dissolution, and a form of rapture which I consider to be a merging with the universal collective consciousness. Call it Akashic records, God, Cthulhu, or Warm Brie, it doesn't matter.

My experience with life after death is that it is a lot like life before death except that people look at you funny afterwards and pretend to care about your feelings all of a sudden while religiously avoiding the taboo subject of your death itself and the associated thoughts or emotions. It's like those touchy-feely bastards that oozed like slime from the Littleton woodwork after people got shot, the same ones that were previously too caught up in parking their Lexus SUVs illegally in the lot next to the Cherry Creek Mall and having the selfish gall to suggest that the owner of said lot had no right to put the Denver Boot on their car.

Life during death can be cool or suck, depending on your attitude (i.e. do you feel bad about anything you did) and independent of any external morality. It's a lot like acid in that regard, what kind of trip you have is dependent on whether you are a drama qaween or a chill monkey.

The trick to all this shit is to live instead of waiting for death, because death has a big cock and is into anal.

Sorry for the bluntness and all that, flame me if you don't like it.

 

Fanatic




Posts: 522
Registered: 6/7/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 30/7/2003 at 12:36 PM
Scientism can be welcome when you pinpoint the facts but when you don't it must be a very cold religion to follow.

Aye, sometimes in a debate science and things such as the paranormal can clash, co-exist...whatever word you choose but now at least is the time to go on your principles of faith...

If your faith is in science then go for it. If religion, go for it. If none, go for it.

 

____________________

SRC="http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/snes/ff6/images/characters/kefka.gi


f"> HREF="http://www.pathetic.org/library.php?i_memberid=2042">
size=1> but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living

 

Fanatic




Posts: 580
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 27/7/2003 at 01:59 PM
Thank you, Schiz. You beat me to that punch. Science (as an extension of natural philosphy) is restricted in its purview to that which is both observable and repeatable. The branch of science called biology can explain the simple fact that you have children. The branch of science called mathematics can explain the simple fact that you have a finite number of children. The branch of science called physics can explain the simple fact that your child stumbled and scraped their knee. But no branch of science can demonstrate the simple fact that you love your child. I wouldn't look to science for the answers about the afterlife; there is plenty in the here and now that science is not equipped to answer.

While science might have narrow and specific parameters, scientism does not. Scientism (not to be confused with Scientology) is the slavish belief that nothing lies outside the range of scientific discipline, which can explain anything and everything; scientists are infallible and that their words carry more weight than any laymen, and that the human race knows more now than it ever has (it doesn't). Science can be an invaluable tool within its own limitations, but Scientism makes science into a sacred cow and scientists into the high priests of an unpopular religion.

~M.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 897
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 27/7/2003 at 06:04 AM
The problem with science is that it can only (by definition) deal with what is observable and repeatable. Hence, the scientific method, with it's progression from hypothesis, to theory in testing, to fact. Some things just don't fall well under that category.

History, for example, often deals with things that cannot be tested under the scientific method. History deals with documentation, and ways of testing that ascertain whether a certain document is valid and worthy of trust. Science my be used in the process (for example, to test wether the document was actually from the time period claimed), but some things in history are completely unprovable scientifically. For example, did Lincoln actually give the Gettysburg address? The proof is completely contained in A. the written manuscript of the address, B. the written accounts of the event, C. accounts passed down by word of mouth, and D. any photographs that may exist of Lincoln at Gettysburg.

You can observe the present through science. You can document the past through history. But how can you tell what will happen in the future? What is there about the presence of any kind of afterlife that can be tested or documented? Science and history is next to useless in this circumstance.

 

____________________
"You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of
girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"

 

Fanatic




Posts: 344
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 26/7/2003 at 07:14 PM
All I can offer are my hopes/ beliefs on an after life (if there is one). The thing about science is to remember it is still young. If all there is, is science; then I look forward to resting all my muscles and nerves to complete the circle. If heaven (if we can choose what our heaven looks like): grassy hills, trees here and there, majestic mountains, 60-70 degree weather, and most importantly a big blue sky with white fluffy clouds. If hell: a four walled cubicle, fluorescent lights and all. If reincarnation: a dog, or a tree (again if I can choose). If continued consciousness (a.k.a. no longer bound to flesh): I would like to drift the universe. Visit mars, the rings of Saturn, alien stars.

 

____________________
co-worker: "Your gay!?"
myself: "Didn't you see my rainbow pin?"
co-worker: "I just thought you liked skettles."
-(yes, it actually happened to me)

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 656
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 26/7/2003 at 05:46 PM
I think science is a good way to approach, as well. When I look at doctrines and myths, science usually comes first. What I was pointing out was that nothing explains beyond, which may be one of those things we will not know about at all. But I probably did have the wrong interpretation. Human mistake, my bad.


[Edited on 7/27/2003 by Anya]

 

Fanatic




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Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 25/7/2003 at 11:36 PM
I've got my hands too full with this life to worry about how I'm going to screw up the next one.

~M.

 

Fanatic




Posts: 254
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 25/7/2003 at 10:35 PM
Actually I think Science is the best approach. It sets standards for procedure and allows change. You had a wrong interpretation, I'm sorry.

 

____________________
The OBOLISK is Divine.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 656
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 25/7/2003 at 10:25 PM
It is true that there's a lot of unanswered questions in life. Science is a nice system, but it never explains what is beyond - I can say the same for a lot of religion (what was there before God? etc?). I just refuse to believe that the WHOLE truth is in one single book, hence my eclectic tendencies.

There was something I forgot to mention in my other post. I believe in those three things for I personally dealt with a "Hellish" mindset when doing things that I know that I did not want done on myself. The "Heavenly" mindset usually comes when I feel what I would call "Balanced." Whether or not that will happen in the afterlife, I believe it may be, but I also adopt some agnosticism in the concept: who knows?

My beliefs may be right, my beliefs may be wrong. Like everyone else, I'm human and prone to error and like everyone else, I'll likely find out in the 'next life.'


Sticupus: I just read that article you posted the link for not so long ago - I actually enjoyed it. A lot of people outright insist that science is all the answers, but I find that arrogant...as much as I find it arrogant for Bible thumpers to think that they know it all for they believe in a single book. Again, this is coming from an opinionated person [me].





 

Member




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  posted on 25/7/2003 at 09:46 PM
O.O

[Edited on 7/26/2003 by Alugarde]

 

____________________
l33t is the bastard cousin of contractions.

 

Fanatic




Posts: 254
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 25/7/2003 at 09:37 PM
Henry David Thoreau's last two words were "Moose... Indian......"

 

____________________
The OBOLISK is Divine.

 
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