Remy
Occasional Poster Posts: 34 Registered: 29/4/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 14/5/2003 at 11:15 AM |
The gothic scene has reached an almost unbelievable diversity these days.
The music ranges from minimalistic to complex styles, employing probably
every instrument ever invented. You can find calm piano compositions as
well as orchestral arrangements, thunderstorms of guitars and drums or
experimental electronic music... and some of that stuff doesn't sound that
different from the tunes played on MTV.
You can find followers of practically every belief; the established
religions as well as Wiccans, Pagans or misanthropic Satanists. There are
people in this scene that despise you because you just happen to like NIN
or Manson or don't exclusively listen to bands that are considered "goth".
Guys with pompous clothing snarl at guys wearing plain black and vice
versa. Hell, some of them have even a problem with people wearing shirts of
their favorite bands.
There are assholes in every cultural movement and I don't think they're the
majority, but that's not the point here. The point is: What is "gothic"?
And what is not? I don't want any quotations from web sites, books or other
media - I'm only interested in your personal opinion. What is it that you
have in common with the other users of this website? What do you have in
common with all those other people in the scene? Would you call yourself a
goth? Why? Why not?
All those questions may be absolutely pointless and leading nowhere, but
they just came to me while surfing the web a bit and visiting some of its
darker sites. ____________________ "A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything and the value of
nothing." - Oscar Wilde |
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callei
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 20/6/2003 at 01:16 PM |
no prob Remy, i do it all the time too. i try never to post anything before
i can clearly see all the keys on my keyboard. I thought we were agreeing
and am glad to know that we were. ____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away. |
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Anya
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 20/6/2003 at 10:38 AM |
Christianity is somewhat warped nowdays. You can ask three people of the
same denomination and get three different answers. That's a bit why I'm
not 100% on the dogma. Not only does people intrepret it differently, but
it has its own contradictions. But that isn't saying I find no truth at
all, just still find it a manmade tool so it'll have its problems. I try
to avoid most fanatics (Bible thumpers, p eople crying "Jihad!", etc ) for they
either condemn me or condemn the things I have in my life...that goes for
any faith.
Bettie: I see your point on the Devil-Worship/Catholic thing. Cannot have
one without another it seems. One will think, "Damn those Catholics *joins
the devil-worship*" then the other will think "I must be saved from the
grasps of evil! *is a "saved" person*" hehe. Nothing against Christianity
or the community (well, not ALL of it I suppose ), just talking about
the big reliance going on.
Goth to me was always a thing of independence and looking beyond the
obvious. *yawn* So many forums talking about this though...as well as
articles. I'll leave the questioners the benefit of looking at everyone
else's views and the stuff this site has to offer on the subject.
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Anonymous
Posts: 116 Registered: 14/4/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 20/6/2003 at 10:00 AM |
I reallypersonnaly believe that "goth" asyouso wellputit is more ofastateof
mind or as a religion, if i see aperson dressedin black w/ a fewpiercings i
dontautomaticly assumethem"goth" alotofnon-goths listen to metal
andsomeaccual goths do not...so this is why i say its a state of mind or a
religion...its only my personalopinion so dont get cocky,
love always,
^morbid^
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Remy
Occasional Poster Posts: 34 Registered: 29/4/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 19/6/2003 at 03:17 PM |
Sorry callei, I must have somehow skipped that sentence of yours. Shouldn't
post just after getting out of bed anymore. ____________________ "A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything and the value of
nothing." - Oscar Wilde |
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 19/6/2003 at 01:14 PM |
Of COURSE we were *cough*
Then again, didn't a forum about guns end up about pie? mmm. Pie.
Anyway, what is the point of a religion if you don't follow it or if you
change it around to suit your needs? Isn't that the point? To establish a
set way of life and belief or control system to appease a diety? Isn't
claiming a religion and then contouring it to your own belief system
flawed? In essence, all religions are flawed to a point as they were
created by humans, of course, but that's another story.
Devil worshippers: It's basically a reverse of the catholic church. Black
masses, pro devil anti god, evil over good blah blah blah. The Devil
Worshipers have the Catholic church to thank for their religion (even if
they just use the pagentry, which I give MAD props to catholics for). They
are worshipping the Xian manifestation of evil. The Church and the Devil
worshippers sort of feed off each other. I really don't think that either
could exists without each other. Without Evil, the church would have
nothing to do, and without the Church the Devil worshippers would have
nobody Evill to follow.
Satanists: No god, no devil, simply a philosophical mindset based on
realism, human nature, and abandoning social stigmas and ridiculous moral
standards set on the general public that almost always have their roots in
general religion. If you ask a satanist "why" they will reply "why not?".
If you ask a parishoner "why" they usually reply "because the bible..". The
figurehead of satan was chosen not just to take a stab at organised
religion, but because in any religion where he manifests he usually
embodies all human nature, desire, and urges that the church frowns apon.
We don't believe in a devil, just the idea of him as an embodiment of
everything within the average human animal that has been repressed unfairly
throughout the church's reign. It's philosophy, not worship.
____________________ Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas. |
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callei
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 19/6/2003 at 12:32 PM |
quote:Satanist, since they dont believe in the xian gods of God and Devil,
arent a xian sect or cult.
quote: And I think you're wrong concerning your views on satanism... Some
of them even deny any ties to Christianity due to the bad image it gives
Satan.
So you think i am wrong that Satanists dont believe in the Christian god?
please, and i dont mean this sarcastically, please explain to me what you
meant.
I wasnt overgeneralizing about religion, i was (perhaps) overgeneralizing
about christians. I have met four (ok maybe 5) people that claim to follow
that beliefe grouping that werent more interesting in sin than joy, more
afraid of thier gods than loving.
I personally think its odd to claim to believe in one god when you believe
in two. and a host of other beings that arent gods but almost gods. and a
host of even more beings that are sort of demigods but not really but still
have to be dealt with.
But we were talking about what is goth right? ____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away. |
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Remy
Occasional Poster Posts: 34 Registered: 29/4/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 19/6/2003 at 07:27 AM |
Don't you think you generalize a little too much when it comes to religion?
Every holy book offers room for interpretation or there wouldn't be so many
groups claiming they follow the Bible/Koran/Thora with views quite
different to those of other groups following the same book. To me the faith
a person claims to follow doesn't matter anymore. What matters is what
effects this faith has to his views/daily life and if he really follows it
or if he's just another bigot.
And I think you're wrong concerning your views on satanism. AFAIK many of
its different directions were influenced by Egyptian, Sumerian or
Kabbalistic mythology. Some of them even deny any ties to Christianity due
to the bad image it gives Satan. Another direction I recall to have heard
of interprets the God/Satan relationship as the source of evolution since
the principles embodied by them (the spiritual world and order / the
physical world and chaos) are both needed to make change possible without
destroying the world. ____________________ "A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything and the value of
nothing." - Oscar Wilde |
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callei
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 19/6/2003 at 06:57 AM |
devil worshipers are just another flavor of xian, since (if?) they all use
the same 'holy' book, same gods, and same basic world view. Satanist, since
they dont believe in the xian gods of God and Devil, arent a xian sect or
cult. But that is theology and comparative religious studies' way of
looking at it.
I just avoid xians because of what they fundimentally believe and how they
normally act. I dont like being around that kind of pain and suffering all
the time.
And bettie, we couldnt write that test i dont think, or at least i couldnt,
i dont know the stereotype well enough to ask silly enough questions. but
if you do, i will make the test and put it up. ____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and
vampires
/>
away. |
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 18/6/2003 at 10:38 AM |
Fab, callei, fab. Well put.
As for (what I'm assuming to be sarcasm) satanists and devil worshippers
being the "norm", I'd have to say there are far more athiests, agnostics,
or *entergodhere* faiths than actual dyed in the wool satanists within the
*gag* "scene" (I hate even SAYING that word *ugh*) Besides myself, I know
ONE other satanist, and he's more of a metalhead. Now with METALHEADS you
could say that satanism or devil worship is usually the norm, as most
blackmetal bands ARE (especially those nordic wacks....crazy little
buggers). But even then you'll find far more Devil worshipers than
Satanists.
Oh, and callei you forgot one more thing: lots of millitary types/not a
military site. Devin should put up a "jarhead test" for shits and giggles.
*lol* ____________________ Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas. |
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Tvileren
Occasional Poster Posts: 38 Registered: 26/4/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 18/6/2003 at 05:43 AM |
http://maddox.xmission.com/gothagain.html ____________________
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callei
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 18/6/2003 at 05:26 AM |
wow, you dont read ver well do you. Let me try a different one and see if
you can grasp my point. Just because there are teenagers on this site
doesnt make it a teen site.
Does that make more sense to you? Or maybe just because there are drama
queens on the site, doesnt mean that this is a drama site. Or just because
there are single people on the site doesnt mean that this is a dating
site?
How about just because there are people on this site with investment
portfolios doesnt mean that is an investment site. or just because there
are vegans on the site, doesnt make us a vegan site?
Any of those help? Was i going to fast for you? ____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and
vampires
/>
away. |
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callei
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 17/6/2003 at 06:31 AM |
yah lots of people ARE fooled. and then we get to fool with them. hehehe.
Just because there are some goths on this site, doesnt make it a gothsite.
after all we have some christians on the site too... |
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 16/6/2003 at 11:59 PM |
resistance is futile, fool.
I mean, jeebus, the BACKGROUND is black...black as my SOOOOUL. It's a
regular gothapalooza, boy. ____________________ Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas. |
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MorteAscendo
Member Posts: 190 Registered: 6/5/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 16/6/2003 at 06:08 PM |
Jumppin Jesus,
Well, I come back for a visit and there is one of these. I think that
before anyone can register they should be forward to a unclosable window
that force feeds the knowlege of the fact that this is not a goth site.
*wink wink hint hint*
-Mort ____________________ "Roses are Red, Violets are Blue. I'm a schizophrenic, and so am I". |
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 15/6/2003 at 10:28 PM |
He looks a HELL of a lot better than he used to. Wasn't diggin the celine
dion on crank bodysuits, that's for sure. He does always have fab hair
tho, gotta give props to a man with great hair.
Dita....vroom vroom...that lucky son of a bitch. I know way too many guys
that would cut off an appendage for 5 min with that dame. ____________________ Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas. |
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Erishkigal
Member Posts: 62 Registered: 5/10/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 14/6/2003 at 08:46 AM |
Ohh yes Dita Von Teese... I LOVE burlesque! Yep, she's dating Marilyn
Manson, they both look so classy when they're out together, hehe (although
she's so damn pretty, but he looks like he's had an 'incident' with the
ugly stick) ____________________ Let viagra bring the magic back. |
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Nicholas
Member Posts: 74 Registered: 17/3/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 14/6/2003 at 08:26 AM |
Dita von Teese is a beautiful person. Speaking of beautiful people, isn't
Marilyn Manson dating her? (turns green with envy and explodes) ____________________ "Be neither a master nor a slave to pudding, for there is a time to gather,
and a time to cast pudding away" |
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 13/6/2003 at 11:49 PM |
Eh, Dita von Teese is more my speed. I can't get enough of stacked girls
doing 40's style pinup photos. And man, just by listening to her and
seeing her work, you KNOW that girl's got MOVES....yowza. ____________________ Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas. |
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Erishkigal
Member Posts: 62 Registered: 5/10/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 12/6/2003 at 02:43 PM |
A big Eden fan, eh? That girls waist is too scarily small for my tastes. ____________________ Let viagra bring the magic back. |
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