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Author: Subject: Circumcision; fact, myth, opinions.

Fanatic




Posts: 289
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 20/3/2003 at 08:48 PM
Hunh, I stand illuminated. Thanks Stic. I based my comments on the whole lint and dead skin issue on a few comments made by a few female friends who had gotten yeast infections from non-circumcised friends more often than those who had been circumcised. That'll teach me to skimp on my research. I know personally I've always been really fastidious just because I'd like to go on having sex with my partner. Any sort of infection can be pretty damaging to a plan of much frolicing and rubbing of genitals.

As for how to convince the masses, there are a number of organizations devoted to the idea of putting a stop to involuntary circumcision of any kind. Some of them have posters and flyers you can print up, some have other methods that have worked for them clearly outlined. In the case of the reasoning human a clear cut argument like the one you laid out before my first comment may be enough to convince them. My primary thought is that of "what am I missing out on?"

Other than that, ther are going to be alot of those who will claim it as a religious right or just do so in the same method they always have, that of the bilnd sheep following the trend. You can write you congressman and open a discussion in terms of the actual mutilation that is being done in an attempt to have it demonized in the eyes of the court. There is a precedent, I have heard of (But can't remember the docket numbers or even which state it was in) a number of cases in which men have successfully sued either parents, the doctor or both for mutilation. Basically you can convince those with the time, intelligence and inclination to listen with well reasoned approach, and you can get those people to outlaw it for the protection of the unthinking masses.

I hate to really bring that option up because of the alarmist and over the top nature of most legislators. I can just see them deciding o make the procedure as illegal for the adults to do to themselves as it would be for the adults to do to their children, and from there the next logical step would be to use the legal precedent set to outlaw body piercing (I think this is how it works, Where's Arthegarn when we need him?) . Anyway, those are the things I can think of at the moment. I know there is an effort in the USA to get the practice of At-birth circumcision illegalized, but it is a major battle becasue for the Hasidic Jews it is an actual religious rite (I believe done at the age of thirteen or twelve done as part of the coming of age ritual) and the Xians are such sheep they will claim it's their right too just becasue most of them have no idea that the whole idea of being a Xian is based on the protestant movement which, when it moved away from it's catholic roots said they were following the teachings of Christ. To wit by doing his whole bloody cross gag he wiped out the rules and regs of the old testament and set up new ones for the people written in his blood. Of course, like you asid earlier most of these people don't bother to read their holy book and...Umm, different rant all together sorry.

I think that says it all for the moment. I hope it helped, and thanks again for all the info.

 

____________________
It is only through the lack of sex that humanity derives the need for an all encompassing blind love. And in that moment of extreme horniness with no relief in sight, in that moment can be found the birth of religion.
-Me

 

Fanatic




Posts: 254
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 20/3/2003 at 10:26 PM
I'm glad to be informative. I'm sure you are more careful with your lovers than most people are Shade (in fact I could say I‘m positive- I can tell you really care). You’re a Scorpio, I can tell you take sex very seriously.
Infection can just happen for no reason. But it sounds to me like your friends may have been a little dirty, on the male or female side, and they forgot the most important part about unprotected sex; USE LUBRICATION! Chaffing from dryness makes tears and tiny cuts, or may cause bruising. This leads to infection. Remember kids, you can never have too much lube. It probably had more to do with that or something else, not the penis at hand, unless it was a skanky one. The girls should know the difference and avoid them.... or at least get a wash cloth if the guy is that cute or charming.

On a less obscene note on me behalf, I would like to comment on what exactly you are missing out on. Absolutely nothing Shade. Lets think of this as a quantum physics thing: because of the nature of the procedure, it is irreversible. Since time holds a very ridged linear path, it is simply the way things are, like your eye color, and skull shape. It is unchangeable and anything different wouldn’t be possible and would be alien anyway. You aren’t missing out on anything, because it’s impossible for you to experience anything else. If you are worried about loss of sensation, avoid washing your genitals with harsh anti-bacterial or deodorant soaps as I heard it has numbing qualities to that skin (that‘s more of a note to all male readers), and recall your past sexual experiences and ask yourself if it seems like you are missing anything. You’ll find the answer there. You, as well as all circumcised males are fine. There is nothing broken about you all. The point of this forum is to discuss the issue of infant circumcision, and to educate people about it, get opinions, and hopefully convince people to leave their kids penises alone. This forum is not meant to make you or other males feel bad or broken- that is harmful, hurtful, cruel and fucking pointless. If this discussion is making you guys feel that way, I’ll stop this forum now and hopefully what needed to be said will have been said. I will continue to give frank discussions and facts about the effects of infant circumcision, and I will do my best not to hurt feelings accidentally in the process.

As for the legal issues, hopefully there could be a compromise like in Roe vs. Wade. That compromise was that women couldn’t get an abortion in the final trimester of their pregnancy unless it was a threat to their lives and a medical doctor consented. My ideal compromise would be that no person in the United States is allowed to be circumcised by a medical doctor, forced into the procedure by parent guardians, or make the decision to have the procedure done until the child is an adult at the age of 18. After the age of 18, the individual can ran nails through his genitals if they want, but that kind of protection is necessary. Reasons being is that when I was younger, I was ashamed and embarrassed to have a foreskin. I wasn’t like the other boys. I was about to ask the doctor about it when I started to educate myself about my sexual organs, see what my foreskin actually did for my penis, and... well masturbate. I learned that it had specific sexual functions and it felt good. Now I would never dream of cutting anything off. I love every part of my penis, but social pressures would have made me make a mistake if I would have taken the initiative when I was younger. I was lucky to have had the chance to educate myself. Circumcision is rarely needed for medical purposes, unless there is a serious malformation of the penis. Most problems, like tight foreskin, can be cured with a dorsal slit in severe conditions, stretching and topical steroid ointments.

For the religious thing again: I feel they have no right to do that based on religion- not in the United States anyway- maybe in some third world country that still has slavery and decapitation for stealing. People have rights over their own bodies. Women got those rights with the right or abortion and the right to take birth control. Men should have the rights too over their penises, any other body parts and their sexual function. No religious practice is allowed to interfere with those basic rights. What if that child decides not to become a Jew, Muslim, or Christian? Oops? It’s not like a baptism, it’s cutting a very functional piece or some boy’s genitals off. People should NEVER have the right to violate people like that in the name of ritual or a god. It’s unconstitutional. It's mutilation, I don’t care how clean or holy it is.

 

____________________
The OBOLISK is Divine.

 

Fanatic




Posts: 254
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 20/3/2003 at 10:36 PM
I'm just trying to protect my boys. This is a country that advocates boys not to cry, shut up and go to war, and get circumcised. It's not fair, and I'll fight tooth and nail for my own rights and the rights of other guys.

 

____________________
The OBOLISK is Divine.

 

Fanatic




Posts: 254
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 22/3/2003 at 03:06 PM
My 150th post! yay!

 

____________________
The OBOLISK is Divine.

 

Fanatic




Posts: 522
Registered: 6/7/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 24/3/2003 at 02:23 PM
I’m not too comfortable with having a part of my penis cut off when I was so young I could not even begin to comprehend what the hell I am doing there...that and I have this fucking “ring scar” around where the clamp was used to cut off my foreskin, it’s down pretty far now since I grew. Still being circumcised is just like being born; (unless you’re lucky) you don’t have a choice and if you did, would you really want to go through with it?

Honestly, what are the PROVEN benefits of being circumcised? I would like to know. I hear there’s less infection but that’s about it. You do lose sensitivity and for many; when you are sexually active for the first few times the skin feels like it is being pulled off (the foreskin is what prevents that feeling).

On a lighter note, this penis thread is extremely large...

Ack! That didn’t sound right at all.

 

____________________
but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living
 

Fanatic




Posts: 522
Registered: 6/7/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 24/3/2003 at 02:26 PM
“I'm just trying to protect my boys. This is a country that advocates boys not to cry, shut up and go to war, and get circumcised. It's not fair, and I'll fight tooth and nail for my own rights and the rights of other guys.”

Agreed but our country is not the only one to practice that train of though.

 

____________________
SRC="http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/snes/ff6/images/characters/kefka.gi
f"> size=1> but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living

 

Fanatic




Posts: 254
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 24/3/2003 at 05:22 PM
The only proven and obvious "benefit” is less to clean. I guess if you're in a hurry in your fast paced life, then you're set.
Also, there has never been a reported case of penile cancer in a circumcised male. However, the chances of a male contracting penile cancer is 1 in 100,000, and it only happens in very old men. This however is not a recommended treatment to cure or prevent penile cancer since it would be like cutting off a woman's breasts to prevent breast cancer. There are effective treatments other than amputation of any part of your penis, if you happen to be that very unlucky old man. Circumcising 100% of baby boys is not effective penile cancer prevention for .001% of old men.

I’m sorry, Alone. What you have is called a “high and tight” circumcision, hence the scar where it is and your discomfort. You have a circumcision where they take the maximum amount of skin off. I want you to keep in mind that you are fortunate to have had this done when you were young in one way. Usually when a circumcision is preformed “high and tight” on an adult, the skin on the pubic region can be pulled down the shaft. It being done when you were young allowed you skin to grow to compensate for that, so you don’t have pubic hair halfway up your shaft every time you get an erection (not to mention discomfort due to total lack of free flexible skin on your penis).

I know this country isn’t the only one to have the ideals that it does. However, I hear time and time again that we have the best medical system in the world. Then why do we have so much ignorance on circumcision? This isn’t the back woods of Africa where we are performing a manhood ritual on a young warrior, where it is an important part of the culture and a decision made by the individual. This is done by doctors who turn a blind eye to the subject (oooo and it‘s usually done by obstetricians!!!! they don’t know anything about penises! they aren’t urologists!), and confused bold parents who think and were taught they are doing something good for their child. And why wouldn’t they? They are told by friends and relatives (hopefully not by doctors cause that’s incompetence) that the foreskin will get infected and make the penis rot and fall of and take the life of their child. I just hope the kid never gets a hang nail, or a scrapped knee. Oh and by the way parent readers, those “infections” can usually be cured with a prescribed or over the counter cream, or maybe (gasp) a tiny shot. Surgery should sound scarier. I wonder if it would be logical to get skin grafts without anesthesia every time babies get diaper rash.
We are stuck in a senseless cultural rut that we are bigger than. We need more education, information, and thinking about this procedure.

 

____________________
The OBOLISK is Divine.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 897
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 25/3/2003 at 04:12 PM
Damn, this whole topic is making me VERY glad I had a little girl instead of a little boy!

Who first came up with this stupid idea anyway? If La Biblia is correct, God did. In which case, if God didn't like foreskins, why did he make them?

 

____________________
"You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"

 

Fanatic




Posts: 499
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 27/3/2003 at 03:42 PM
Did you hear about the short sighted rabbi performing his first circumcision?

He got the sack.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

 

Fanatic




Posts: 598
Registered: 24/8/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 27/3/2003 at 04:34 PM
BAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! The sack!!! That's fucking priceless!!!

 

____________________
Okay, dazzle me.

 

Fanatic




Posts: 254
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 31/5/2004 at 08:07 AM
I just found a relevant article on the subject. It has lots of information in one place which is easier to grasp.

http://mensnewsdaily.com/archive/newswire/news2004/0401/new swire041804-circumcision.htm

 

____________________
The OBOLISK is Divine.

 

Fanatic




Posts: 344
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 31/5/2004 at 01:19 PM
And here is a myth as to why it began:

4. Lilith's bargain with the angels has its ritual counterpart in an apotropaic rite once performed in many Jewish communities. To protect the newborn child against Lilith --and especially a male, until he could be permanently safeguarded by circumcision-- a ring was drawn with natron, or charcoal, on the wall of the birthroom, and inside it were written the words: "Adam and Eve. Out, Lilith!" Also the names Senoy, Sansenoy and Semangelof (meanings uncertain) were inscribed on the door. If Lilith nevertheless succeeded in approaching the child and fondling him, he would laugh in his sleep. To avert danger, it was held wise to strike the sleeping child's lips with one finger -- whereupon Lilith would vanish.

Found it at the link below.
http://members.tripod.com/~ideomagi/library/AdamsHelpmeets. html

 

____________________
co-worker: "Your gay!?"
myself: "Didn't you see my rainbow pin?"
co-worker: "I just thought you liked skettles."
-(yes, it actually happened to me)

 





Posts: 116
Registered: 14/4/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 31/5/2004 at 04:50 PM
Zero, we approaced most of the banter you just brought up. Try reading the whole forum before making comments like that. And there is someething WRONG with this culture if the natural male penis is seen as scary, disgusting or otherwise bad. I don't give a fuck what a bunch of judgemental girls think about the guy's penis they are currently fucking. I think girls like that need to be told they are fat everyday of their lives so they can gain some perspective on what it feels like to be ridiculed on their bodies. Chances arer through fellow snobby, judgemental girls and the media, they already know what I am talking about.
"Your tits are too flat, go get a painful altering cosmetic procedure to make them bigger."
See? It's awful and mean spirited.
Male circumcision is very painful, mind you, and last time I checked, unless a girl has vaginalplasty, the vagina isn't that much more attractive next to a penis. Genitals can be really ugly.... but that doesn't make them anyless fun, it doesn't me we don't love them anyless... and it's not the person's fault the way their genitals look.

Harder to clean? barely, since you don't have one you wouldn't know. As for-

"oh yeah it's also harder to clean...or well, some men don't know to pull the skin back...which results in an ultra funky smell."

I have no idea what you are talking about.

"by the way have any of you actually seen a male not circumcised??? alot of women are scared of the way it looks."

If their are girls like that in the world that are judgemental bitches to that degree, then they should just buy a realistic circumcised dildo, since that's all they seem to care about in the first place and stop damaging boys by giving them stigmas about their genitals. Don't get a boyfriend if all you care about is cock, and if you want a cheap lay, don't bitch about what you get.

 

Fanatic




Posts: 254
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 31/5/2004 at 04:58 PM
Opps that was me.

Extra note: Genital shopping is cheap unless you're a size queen. If it turns out that the cute redhead you met at the coffee shop had a third testicle, try not to sit there and talk about what's wrong with him while his pants are around his ankles in your bedroom. Instead think of why you brought him home in the first place, the converstaion you had, the dates, and the fact that he's cute. Maybe then you can have some fun and enjoy eachother instead of hollow, hateful fucking.

 

____________________
The OBOLISK is Divine.

 

Fanatic




Posts: 254
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 31/5/2004 at 08:45 PM
I have an interesting link that shows a list of what exactly men have lost in a circumcision plus what can be restored through foreskin restoration. It's highly detailed and informative.

http://www.norm.org/lost.html

 

____________________
The OBOLISK is Divine.

 

Occasional Poster




Posts: 19
Registered: 2/5/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/6/2004 at 10:24 AM
Merry_Widow,I was dragged up Christian-Roman Catholic to be exact-before I was old enough and *wise* enough to make my own mind up,and I have never heard of them practising circumcision-maybe they do things different in the States? The only British people I know who do are Muslims and Jews,unless it's for a medical reason.

 

____________________
Between the intent and the act falls the shadow.

 

Fanatic




Posts: 206
Registered: 1/1/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/6/2004 at 11:37 AM
All I have to say, is that I am very pissed that I was circumsized as a baby. I lost erogenous zones, I had my penice mutilated, and I have scar tisseu becuase of it, which I find unatractive. I have seen uncircumsized penices, and played with them, and I prefer it to mine. Of course, I can never have it reversed. SHITTY, SHITTY, SHIT. The end.

 

____________________
“The only thing that can alter the good writer is death.”
“You know that if I were reincarnated, I’d want to come back a buzzard. Nothing hates him. He is never bothered or in danger, and he can eat anything.”
Faulkner

 

Fanatic




Posts: 246
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 15/7/2004 at 03:30 PM
I'd leave everything well enough alone. unless you are psychic and can see the future to KNOW if the child wants to have a part of their penis chopped off later on in life,, then just let them keep the foreskin. Just make sure that they know how to keep themselves cleaned properly. Give them a book, show them what happens when they don't.

give em the karma sutra,,,,.... when their 16.

 

____________________
When the world is over, will we wonder how it began?

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1810
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 16/7/2004 at 03:45 AM
it really doesn't matter... a cock is a cock...

 

____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.

Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist

 

Occasional Poster




Posts: 26
Registered: 3/7/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 17/7/2004 at 03:45 AM
I decided I should finally post on this board, instead of being a Peeping Tom all the time...And what better place to start than "The Foreskin Thread"? None, I should think. Here's a link relavent to the topic

http://www.cirp.org/library/normal/wright1/

Some of it has already been said on this thread, but it does go more in depth and also has some interesting statistics. It even has a diagram!

I found it to be very interesting. The sad thing is, I found this loooong before the thread was started and saved the link thinking "hm, This might come in handy some day". And it did.

 

____________________
Fuck the Rest of You.
-Machine Fucking Head

 
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