einzelgaenger
Coward Posts: 9 Registered: 22/10/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 22/10/2003 at 06:29 PM |
I hate work as much as the next person, but unfortunately for me no matter
how much work drives me up the wall I don't get to quit. Plus, goth and
the military doesn't seem to mix well, or not for me. Though the reactions
the first time a cowork or supervisor sees me in all black with fishnets
and black painted nails is priceless. Anyone else out there in the
military or prior military? ____________________ Michael Schultz
http://einzelgaenger.livejournal.com - A Look Into My
Mind
http://schultzy.livejournal.com/ - My Stories
http://einzelgaenger.deviantart.com/gallery/ - My
Photography |
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 11/10/2004 at 02:50 AM |
Wormwood... having never been in the situations we are discussing, I really
don't think you have any room to talk or any idea of what it's really
like... when you are so desparate to out of the shit that you will take any
option you offered... especially when you have NO PREVIOUS CONTACT with the
military...
the middle eschellons of our society are aware... the lower are not... ____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist |
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Schizo
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 897 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 11/10/2004 at 02:44 AM |
I think I would be hard-put to find a human being on this earth that does
not have at least one screw loose somewhere. And I'm sure we've all put
ourselves in positions to get fucked up the ass royally, just because we
neglected to read between all the lines. It's not stupidity, it's just
humanity. Especially when it's inexperienced, deperate, eighteen-year-old
humanity. It's easy to put people down when they swallow things that
you've already seen through, but for all you know, you've swallowed things
that they've seen through, too. That's life. You learn from your
mistakes, if you're any good at all. But you're bound to make some pretty
big mistakes now and then, and it doesn't mean that your any stupider than
anyone else. Only if you make the same mistake again without learning.
Now, there's true stupidity. ____________________ "You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of
girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism" |
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W0rmW00d
Fanatic Posts: 355 Registered: 5/8/2004 Status: Offline
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posted on 10/10/2004 at 08:14 PM |
good lord. screwed over in a finanial transaction? who would have thought
it possible.
i really do think that anyone naive enough to beleive a recruitment poster
has a screw loose somewhere. this time this isnt a dig, its just an
opinion. the military needs bodies. it is a self proliferating machine
which trains cannon fodder, to be truly blunt and history has proven that
the militarys of the world are not averse to lying through their teeth to
get want they want or need. you only need to squint a little at the space
under one line and over another, and that is only in the subtle cases. i
will freely admit that screws can be loosened by wrenches, to extend that
metaphor well past its use-by date, just as surely as they can have been
loose to begin with or work themselves loose over time. (god that got
torturous didnt it). this need to open its eyes, uncover its ears and start
screaming 'evil' ____________________ Eritis sicut Deus scientes bonum et malum.
And the third angel sounded, and a troll army did descend upon the world. |
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Schizo
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 897 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 10/10/2004 at 04:21 AM |
Mono, thanks for the correction. How easy it is to swallow down the notion
that Nazi = evil, and forget all the innocent swept up there, too. Just
like the rest of the world today in regards to the USA, we see the evil of
the leaders, and project it onto all who wear the uniform. This isn't
right, and I apologize.
As for the lies that people swallow to believe things like politicians and
military recruiters, well, a lot of 18 year olds just aren't that used to
picking up on lies. Especially one like my cousin. His father was one of
the nicest men I have ever come across, and his mother is amazing. Neither
of them would wittingly lie to their son. Yes, the church that we were
raised in was a crock of bull, but I know it took me well past my teens
before I figured that out. And public highschools are sure as hell not
going to bite the hand that feeds them. If you're not used to being lied
to at home, and have not yet discovered the lies around you, then your are
wide open to swallow anything the government or military wants to feed you.
Ignorance, in my cousin's case, stopped being bliss.
I have not had the opportunity to talk to my cousin since he was stationed
in Iraq. He's an intelligent person, and I don't think the military has
squashed all perceptive ablilities out of him. I wonder now what he feels
of his leaders. ____________________ "You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest
of
girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism" |
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 10/10/2004 at 02:00 AM |
you don't sign at classification... classification is where you go and they
tell you what you wanna be... once you are in... you are in their power...
the only way that you can guarentee what you get to do is to get it signed
ahead of time is to have it signed before you go in... I know 3 that got
that... and we were pilots first... ____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist |
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Monolycus
Fanatic Posts: 580 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 9/10/2004 at 11:45 PM |
feral: Yes, I am aware of how predatory and manipulative military
recruiters are, and I agree with you that this is a big, big part of the
problem. It staggers me that anyone actually believes a single word said
by any spokesman of the government, but I'm forming the opinion that the
average person actually wants to be lied to. I would say that
people are sheeplike, but I have yet to see a sheep that was actually eager
to be fleeced.
At any rate, while I acknowledge the duplicity there, it is incumbent upon
people to find out as much as they can before they sign on the
dotted line. I apologise for how cynical this is going to sound, but... of
course a recruiter is going to lie to you. Of course an elected official
is going to lie to you. Hell, even the fucking newspapers are going to lie
to you. If you simply believe everything a salesman tells you and don't
read the fine print yourself and do a bit of fact checking, YOU WILL GET
SCREWED. Duh.
~M.
____________________ "I believe that woman is planning to shoot me again." |
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 9/10/2004 at 08:01 PM |
Wormwood: half of those that should get full pensions, get cheated... I am
one of em... I got three years of pension and medical coverage, in spite of
the fact that they ruined my knees... and then DICK... ABSOLUTELY DICK ____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist |
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 9/10/2004 at 07:58 PM |
Mono: but the recruiters are the first and only contact most of these
youngsters have before they make it to Boot camp... and lemme tell you...
the recruiters make it sound like you just have to go through basic, then
you can do anything you want... Seriously... they sell this pile of shit,
telling these kids that tehyt can get computer, communications, mechanics
experience, educations and the like... MOST never know until classification
what they really signed on for... the number of people that came out of
that door crestfallen, upset and horrified... these people are lied to... ____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
/>
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist |
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Monolycus
Fanatic Posts: 580 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 9/10/2004 at 12:40 AM |
W0rmW00d: It was war crimes time over a year ago until the spineless
Belgians who were proffering charges at the world court caved in because
Rumsfeld threatened to take all those US dollars home with him if they did.
Ain't gonna happen.
Schiz: Well, then, let's be consistent here. There were some damned fine
men who also had extended families and happened to fight and die for the
cause of National Socialism in Germany in the 1920's-1930's. They probably
don't "deserve" to be lumped in with the rest of the Nazis, either. It is
by our decisions that we are judged, not our characters.
~M. ____________________ "I believe that woman is planning to shoot me again." |
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Schizo
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 897 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 8/10/2004 at 12:30 PM |
I know, Mono. I hate this war, and I hate having my cousin being involved
in it at all. I dealt better with it when he was stationed in Bosnia,
guarding the churches which were as a result, the only safe place for the
children to play. But I do know this - my cousin, though politically
deluded, is still a sane, decent person in the middle of an insane,
indecent situation, and he conducts himself as such. It seems that extreme
conditions such as war magnify the personality of the person involved. So
many people are assholes deep inside, that it's no wonder that armies of
all nations have a reputation for rapine and pillage. But there are still
some decent fellows trapped in the mess, and they deserve better than to be
lumped with the rest. ____________________ "You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and
the
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dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest
of
girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism" |
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W0rmW00d
Fanatic Posts: 355 Registered: 5/8/2004 Status: Offline
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posted on 8/10/2004 at 08:54 AM |
now, i wonder. is it war crimes time for bush?
if someone with the power to do so had the balls to stand up and try to
bring him to justice for an illegal war in this mockery of an international
law we have, would he stand trial?
also it is nice to see him still standing up for what he beleives in. no
weapons of mass destruction, and no possibility of them. of course this is
not a dual standard.
i suspect that he will continue to stand behind his 'saddam had every
intention of restarting his program once the sanctions were lifted' but
what that actually means is 'once saddam was allowed to make wmds he was
going to make wmds'
umm. anyone see an inconsistency here? ____________________ Eritis sicut Deus scientes bonum et malum.
And the third angel sounded, and a troll army did descend upon the world. |
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Monolycus
Fanatic Posts: 580 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 8/10/2004 at 03:26 AM |
feral and Schiz: You both dealt more constructively with my observations
(read: hissy fit) than I was afraid you were going to. Thanks for giving
me equal time there even if I did abuse it a bit. I agree that blanket
assessments are not a good way to view much of anything, but, honestly,
when the Abu Ghraib story broke, all of us English teachers looked at each
other and shrugged. Nobody was a bit surprised. I've seen American GI's
misbehaving in horrible, horrible ways in the USA when I was growing up but
I can tell you that their behaviour becomes even more appalling when they
are shitting in someone else's living room. The servicemen of other
nations don't seem to behave quite so badly when they are on foreign soil
and I don't even begin to know why that is.
feral, I know and I agree that for many military service seems the only
escape... but I disagreed wholeheartedly about your comments about the GI
bill and retirement plans being the draw there. Being a thuglike enforcer
isn't incidental to the job... it is the job and everything else
is a fringe benefit. If you cut a deal with the devil, you can't complain
when it's time to pay up... at the end of the day, enlistment is about
being there to kill or be killed should the occasion arise. The retirement
plan is simply icing, you can't justifiably make an argument that you had
no idea people might shoot back.
Schiz, while every human being is an individual and none of us want our
loved ones in harm's way, you do have to ask... what is he doing over
there? The answer, as painful as it is to hear, is that he is working as
the strong arm of people with extremely questionable motives. There's
simply no way to rationalise that away. I'm sorry, but I do not respect
blind obedience when people are being killed and maimed.
And finally, feral again... you can not genuinely and truly say that you
are shocked by that news item. The only shocking thing about it is that
Bush and Cheney are being that candid about things. Honestly, I despise
saying "I told you so", but, for Christ's sake, read some of my back
comments on all of this before military operations were begun. This should
not catch you off guard at all.
Thanks, guys. This is a very emotional topic and I am glad that there is
no ill-will between us over it.
~M.
____________________ "I believe that woman is planning to shoot me again." |
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 7/10/2004 at 08:14 PM |
http://cnn.aimtoday.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?flok=FF-APO-1107
&idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20041007%2F2057299404.htm&sc=1107&photoid=20041007MOC
R101
speaking of this war... I cannot even begin to convey my shock... ____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
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Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist |
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 7/10/2004 at 08:13 PM |
Mono... these options are the ONLY way some people can get out of the slums
and lower income areas of the united stated... Thing is...those who don't
have a good source of education aren't dipshits... they are unwittingly
ignorant and have only a few options...
And my argument is from the standpoint of an idealistic youth who didn't
learn what the US government was about until AFTER signing up...
Now... those that are overseas, being ass-monkeys, will be ass-monkeys no
matter where they are... all I have to say is that you seem to be making a
blanket statement that covers the entirety of the service members... and in
many cases, they are too idealistic to know different... and those that are
not ass-monkeys... well you get my point...
____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
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Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist |
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Schizo
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 897 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 7/10/2004 at 03:38 PM |
Sorry I got kind of pissy, too, but I can't help seeing red whenever people
make blanket statements about people in the military, because I instantly
see my cousin's face. I see him as he was before the military, just sort
of good-naturedly fumbling his way towards ruining his life, and the way he
was as I saw him last, an adult, with strength and control in his face. I
am so proud of my cousin, and I love him so much. It wasn't his fault that
he lost his father to cancer, that his mother couldn't afford to send him
to a decent school, and that he was blessed (and cursed) with and
easy-going friendly personality that just set him up to fall into the wrong
croud. He WAS smart enough to know that he didn't want to go the way he
was headed, and smart enough to find a way out. It's a pity that there
aren't more ways out for kids in his situation. And he's shouldered his
load and taken his responsibility. And he hasn't let the military squash
the humanity out of him. I hurt for him every time I think about it, and I
think about it often, thanks to the picture of him on my fridge.
I hate this war, and all it represents. As for WWII, I don't know a whole
lot of the politics of it, except I know that if America's government was
anything then like it is today, then we weren't much better than the Nazi's
we were fighting. But your average G.I.? They were just ordinary guys
trying to protect their families, and other people's families, too. Were
they deluded? Maybe. Were they stupid? No. In the face of the
information that they had at their disposal, they did their best to do what
appeared necessary. And they have my respect and honor. They do, and so
do those kids like my cousin in Iraq. They are doing their best with what
they've been given, and they deserve better. ____________________ "You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and
the
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dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the
carefullest
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of
girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism" |
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Monolycus
Fanatic Posts: 580 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 5/10/2004 at 03:58 AM |
Man... I have GOT to stop bottling up all this anger.
FUCK! SHIT! COCK! PISS! CUNT! PUSSY! MOTHERFUCK!
Okay. That's a little better.
~M. ____________________ "I believe that woman is planning to shoot me again." |
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Monolycus
Fanatic Posts: 580 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 5/10/2004 at 03:36 AM |
And Schiz... I'll say that to a WWII vet as quickly as I will say it to
anyone. Who, precisely, was going to make me goose step? USA and Germany
were trading partners and the USA wrote Germany's eugenics program (read:
extermination) until a monster ten times worse than Adolf Hitler appeared
on the scene (Josef Stalin)... and then we allied ourselves with THAT
atrocity! ~shaking my head~
~M. ____________________ "I believe that woman is planning to shoot me again." |
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Monolycus
Fanatic Posts: 580 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 5/10/2004 at 03:29 AM |
Not trying to pick a fight here, feral, but I don't have to
respect our dipshits in uniform if I don't want to... and frankly, I'm
getting a bit fed-up with the whole "Land of the Free" cock-and-bull
tagline as well. You're argument here is the same as that of those who
oppose flag-burning... "This land represents FREEDOM! So here's what you
can and can not do with the flag!" I'm living in what is technically a
police state at the moment in a country that is still technically at war,
and I feel I have many more civil liberties here than I did in the
States... or at least everyone isn't always trying so desperately to remind
me how many "freedoms" I have (if it's so damned obvious, why do you keep
having to remind everyone every two minutes?)
Mostly, though, it's one thing to be a US service member overseas
(and I know you were, so don't get defensive) and it's quite another to
have to deal with the bastards. Yeah, American GI's see one
picture, but I can tell you that they are UNIVERSALLY loathed by everyone
else... and I have yet to find an American civilian living here that
doesn't hate American GI's along with everyone else.
I don't care if a knuckle dragger looks good in a uniform... I most
certainly do not have to respect them.
~M. ____________________ "I believe that woman is planning to shoot me again." |
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W0rmW00d
Fanatic Posts: 355 Registered: 5/8/2004 Status: Offline
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posted on 5/10/2004 at 03:05 AM |
Anyone heard of conscription? Many of those people who died 'for me' or got
injured 'for me' were forced to.
and i did say EVERYTHING they get. so they do deserve their paycheck and
their medical cover.
it is a shame that some people see the military as the only way. presumably
librarys arent open anymore so its not possible to manage a decent
education?
and schizo. i am no hypocrite. find me a war veteran who chose to do what
they did and i will say anything to them that i would here. and i suspect
that they would retaliate with the threat of physical violence. paid
killers by choice.
i have got plenty for my poor decisions, though not as a direct result.
must be karma or something. ____________________ Eritis sicut Deus scientes bonum et malum.
And the third angel sounded, and a troll army did descend upon the world. |
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