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Author: Subject: Routine, the Scourge of Wisdom...

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 897
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/12/2007 at 01:29 AM
I said there WAS a place for artful obfuscation, MJ... please read what I said again... the point is that it needs to be artful, or it is just confusion without a point.

I'm not saying your approach to newbies is wrong - I'm just saying it is your approach, which does not mean it has to be everyone else's. I don't see that Feral was bashing anyone - he seems to just be trying to figure out the guy's meaning (in his own obessive way *grins*) Sorrow hasn't seemed to mind much, in fact, he's come back for quite a bit more, so I think all is well.

I just don't see why it is OK to jump all over an established member for his legitimate issues, but newbies are to be handled like they were as fragile as spun glass. Feral has started plenty of constructive discussions here over the years. New members aren't the only good things that can be chased away. Well, maybe you don't think he is a good thing - but you used to, at least, see Shmeng as a place where all kinds of social rejects can feel free to be themselves and be accepted. Does that include Feral or not? It doesn't have to be turned into a good-guy/bad-guy thing...

And Feral - maybe the mechanics of figuring out what newbis are trying to say could be kept to private messaging... yeah, I know the PMs here are half-broken and kind of annoying, but it might help avoid misunderstanding in the future.

Can't we all just get along?

 

____________________
"You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"

 

Fanatic




Posts: 580
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/12/2007 at 02:30 AM
quote:
Can't we all just get along?


No.

 

____________________
"I believe that woman is planning to shoot me again."

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 897
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/12/2007 at 08:19 AM
Now there's clarity...

 

____________________
"You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of
girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1810
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/12/2007 at 09:30 AM
Mono..you are wrong...this is a new dance... before ... I was harsh and nasty and mean to the newbis... for more than a year (since LGG and before) I took some comments to heart and worked outside of my comfort zone, approached newbis in private and talked with them and tried to help them. I have paused left the computer and then come back and posted instead of my instant searing reactions... in the past I have attempted to smooth things over and express myself completely for you mj and others...

let's look at this thread. you made some very obnoxious comments to this newbie... good points all, and all within your personal ethos. But, you did bash a bit and you did pick apart her grammar in one paragraph. None of these things was wrong...and it is your style...

Then... I make ONE COMMENT about apparent sarcasm, and I get my as jumped... schizo gets yelled at because she was asking for some clarity of communication...which you did as well...

it's a double standard...or another word for it is hypocrisy... as I have always argued here...we are all held to the same standards... or should be... at the behest of others I have made a major effort to be someone other than I am... and give the newbis a chance to spread their wings and even encourage them. fine... give em some fucking water wings... good... fine... but those of who have been here for years, should share the same goddamn standards of behavior and ethics... so... when three members involved with the same discussion and two are yelled at for the same kind of shit as the third... I am going to call bullshit.

I am tired of it... no body that wants anything solved starts with the phrase Jesus fucking Christ... as we say in the conflict resolution business, that's a trigger phrase.

you once complimented me on the consistency of my personal ethos... I compromised that by being accommodating to people I considered family and (as I have explained) trying to be nicer and accommodate the newbies... more than one member has seen me making that effort and has commented on it to me. Honestly, I was willing to do it because I was doing it for people I cared about. In recent months it has began to be upsetting because I betrayed myself. My instincts have grown dull because I have coddled, making them expect something soft... Fuck that... I am me... the creature that follows his instincts and my instincts say that this person who claims to be a faggot (male term) with the posted name of gisele was being sarcastic... I responded gently to it...

My instincts tell me to tell sorrow...what ever gender it may be... that it's not as smart as it wants to think and should just write the way it feels instead of trying to communicate on an elevate level. My instincts bristle at your snide comments in my direction. If you don't like me fine... but stop assuming I am too low on the intellectual totem pole to catch them, because I am no longer going to ignore them If you like me, and they are meant to be a friendly jibe, then make it apparent that is what they are. You have agreed with me when I have made the statement that “the burden of understanding falls on the communicator. - so please hold yourself to that standard as well. I am adding this next statement in spite of my instincts – it's not an attack but a suggestion to facilitate communication under your request “can't we just get along?”


MJ Deal with it. Per your request I have bent over backward in accommodating these newbies. I have done my best and every time I interact with them, you end up accusing me of some heinous crime of communication and newbie abuse. So... I am done attempting to accommodate your suggestions in this matter. I am going to be me. Deal with it..

You have spent a couple years claiming that you understand me because you know someone else who has asperger's syndrome. I hate to break it to you...you don't understand a thing about me. You keep saying “I understand what you are going through.” You don't... you have no idea. You have never had more than 90 seconds of cognitive dissonance in your life. You do not know what it is like. I am not saying that I suffer or that my mental or emotional pain is any greater than yours... but I have broken my nose and my knee... and let me tell you...they both hurt the same amount... but they were totally different experiences, and unless you have done both, then you cannot understand them. Same with this... you do not understand. Stop saying you do.

Also... you have stated in the past that you understand what I am saying. You haven't. I have proof that you do not. You will say “I understand.” and then respond to something completely different to what I was saying. Again, stop telling me you understand... try asking some questions to see if you do. I know we all have different modes and forms of communication here, and that is why the standard that schizo commented on, and to a lesser extent, I. Schizo wants and asks for clarity of expression. Mono asked for it as well (“Awaited "of" or awaited "by"...? Let's clean up some of those prepositions ) My comment was that I was unsure of the intent of the statement. And guess what??? That means I desired clarification.

I say the same basic thing that I do to mono, but with a bit more heat. I don't give a fuck if you like me. BUT DON'T EXPECT ME TO BE ANYTHING OTHER THAN WHAT I AM. Take it or leave it. I spent over a year working with them, trying to get to know them on a personal level, contacting almost every newbie that joined in private and trying to encourage them on a personal level and get them going here... all at your behest and you don't really give a fuck. So. Neither do I. But I will damned if I will stand by and be called out on something, or watch another get called out on something that others are doing and not respond. So – apply a single standard to your interactions or you will get the same response from me every time: “FUCK OFF.” If we can all hold ourself to the single standards... then we can interact meaningfully. Otherwise, what's the point?

 

____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.

Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist

 

Fanatic




Posts: 580
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/12/2007 at 09:31 AM
If you're implying that I was posting under the name Sorrow, you're barking up the wrong tree. Sock puppets aren't my gig. Got me a feeling you might have heard otherwise, but you'd have been misinformed.

I don't use proxy anonymizers... and if there's some doubt, why don't you ask the keeper of the ISP's? I post under this name and this name only.

 

____________________
"I believe that woman is planning to shoot me again."

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1810
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/12/2007 at 09:32 AM
Mono: I apologize..you did not ask if we could all jsut get along... please accept my corrected citation

 

____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.



Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist

 

Fanatic




Posts: 580
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/12/2007 at 09:33 AM
quote:
Mono..you are wrong...this is a new dance...


Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

 

____________________
"I believe that woman is planning to shoot me again."

 

Fanatic




Posts: 580
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/12/2007 at 09:35 AM
quote:
Mono: I apologize..you did not ask if we could all jsut get along... please accept my corrected citation


I'm accepting a total of two things from you: Jack and shit.

[Edited on 12/1/2007 by Monolycus]

 

____________________
"I believe that woman is planning to shoot me again."

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1810
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/12/2007 at 09:42 AM
Everybody's-Fair-Game-But-Me...never said that..but I am not a target to shoot at. I shoot back..sorry that you cannot take that. Sorry that your targetss have to be helpless and unable to respond.

you may not have been talking to me, but you were talking about me. Everyone told me to leave you alone because "that was your way of apologizing." And then you sa back and sniped.

I will be honest with you...I called you friend..you called me friend..then I did something to wrong you in your mind and then you never told me about it...just got mad and harumphed about it. your opinion of my actions means about as much as a festering bowl of dog snot. you see...you lied to me... outright... because that is not how a friend behaves... so pardon me if I put little stock in your commentary... if you don't want to talk to me, then don't talk about me in a public forum.. i've ignored your petty bullshit snide comments since you came back because I thought it was best for the site...because everyone wanted you back.

Now I say: stop being a child... if you don't want to talk to me, then don't do what you've been doing...

 

____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.





Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist

 

Fanatic




Posts: 580
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/12/2007 at 09:51 AM
You stop following me around from post to post like some kind of endlessly pontificating know-it-all terrier, you won't have reason to play your perpetual victim card.

You saying I'm acting like a child? I'm saying you're a two dimensional bully and I'm sick of the stereotypical internet tough guy act. Why haven't you threatened to come crawling through my monitor to kick my ass yet? I say something has nothing to do with you and you chirp in with your constant know-better-than-everyone peurile crap and if anyone DARES disagree with you, then you bring up your flaring case of assburgers.

I'm acting like a child? Do I need to link to the forum where you whined like a pussy about how you were never coming back again that lasted a total of ONE MONTH or should we talk about how your girlfriend fights all your battles for you? Oh, but I'M the bad guy 'cos I hurt your wee wittle feelings.

Fuck and you, feral. Put'em in whatever order you want.

 

____________________
"I believe that woman is planning to shoot me again."

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1810
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/12/2007 at 09:59 AM
Yeah..and then I left... 6 or so months...not a word, not a log in...I cam back because several members did what they did to you...asked me to come back because I was missed... there was no fanfare...

Funny that someone who left because I supposedly attacked him when I was simply trying to clarify should accuse others of a victim complex... please...define victim? having problems with the way one or two people treeat me...that makes me a victim? responding to mistreatement in a less than pleasant way...that makes me a victim?

you say I have my girlfriend fight my battles.. I am sorry that someone of the opposite sex agrees with my opinion. But I never stood back, I fought my own battles here.

Though...I am noticing a pattern here... everything you have just accused me of, you are guilty of yourself... seems like you are projecting...

sorry to everone who asked me to come back, but I was right...

 

____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
/>





Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist

 

Fanatic




Posts: 511
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/12/2007 at 10:17 AM
Well. I realized that people would be upset about being criticized. But it's truly amazing how drawn out this gets every time.

I'll go ahead and translate what I was saying.

"jesus fucking Christ" is a term displaying the extreme frustration I was feeling at what I saw as yet another unnecessary question of someone's motives.

I don't care about motives. I care about results. Motives do not change a given result. An evil motive can cause a good result as much as a good motive can cause an evil one. I did not say anything about what people were saying about the content of the guy's post.. I see the original post as fair game for discussion. I only got my dander up about speculation on what the guy "means" by his words. To assume that someone is displaying sarcasm... when you have admitted that you did not know for sure... I think is unreasonable and unnecessary. Likewise with assuming that the person in question is deliberately "trying" to write in a more intelligent manner than he is cabable of out of pretention. You just see the discussion he was trying to start. Making assumptions about someone's motives and personal feelings on the internet is like looking through water and assuming things are exactly where you think they are. There's refraction caused by water, and there's no way of knowing if a person is expressing themselves well online. You, Feral... in particular, ought to have more of a clue about this... because you say others make assumptions about you. You don't like it. Do you think this guy likes it that people are assuming that he is sarcastic or pretentious?

Yes, I was insulting in my post. I was frustrated and wanted to make my displeasure known. No, it wasn't nice. My motives... which you can do nothing but assume about... have nothing to do with the results, which is that people are now angry, upset and feeling attacked. The motive behind it doesn't matter. Only the results. Did I mean for people to feel angry, upset and attacked? I definitely wanted to bring home my point... that I am sick to death of people assuming about people's motivations when they post something. I think I made that point.

Now, let's quit playing the blame game and talking about ALL the other bullshit problems we have with one another.

Like when I deal with my kids, let's make this quick, painless and over. If we want to talk about why we don't get along, let's make a new forum for it. That ought to be very interesting.

 

____________________

 

Fanatic




Posts: 580
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/12/2007 at 10:20 AM
Six months, huh? Goodbye forever was dated 11/9/2006.

Next post was dated 12/16/2006.

I must not understand how calendars work, 'cos we all know you're never wrong about anything.

 

____________________
"I believe that woman is planning to shoot me again."

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1810
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/12/2007 at 10:33 AM
Mono... I am sorry...,should have said... then... at a later time... around may of this year... I left... didn't log back in till last week...

november... 11...may 5... 11 - 5 = 6...

either way... why are you talking to me?

MJ: no thanks...I don't care any more...

 

____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
/>
/>







Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist

 

Fanatic




Posts: 511
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/12/2007 at 10:36 AM
Don't care if you care. I just wanted to speak my mind. We're allowed to do that on a public forum, you know.

 

____________________

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 897
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/12/2007 at 10:55 AM
Honestly, though, I think more than anything else this is why the site has been so dead... things that ought to be cared for privately are being aired publicly, in the middle of conversations that then get halted. Newbies get scared off, and established members get sickened. If we can't all be friends, can we at least air our disputes in private?

 

____________________
"You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the />
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest
of

girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"

 

Fanatic




Posts: 580
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/12/2007 at 04:37 PM
No, don't ambush people in private messages, either. That's what got this ball rolling in the first place. I think this needs to be aired. Probably should be aired in the "Tough Love" forum, but this is where it happened, so this is where I'll address it. Fuck my karma script. If I'm banned, I'm banned.

feral wrote:
quote:
either way... why are you talking to me?


I know that you like to argue that black is white when it suits your purpose, but if you want to scroll back to page 1, you'll see it was you brought MY name up first. You said that somebody told you once that my not talking to you was "my way of apologizing"... News Flash: I HAVE NOTHING TO APOLOGIZE FOR. I WAS THE ONE WHO WAS ORIGINALLY ATTACKED WHEN THIS STARTED BETWEEN US.

I tried to make peace once, granted, but since that doesn't involve overtly fellating you, you wouldn't have anything to do with it. My not talking to you was an effort to avoid exactly the pissing match we see here before us. I know full well that anything I type here is going to be twisted by you to fuel your martyr complex, so I haven't bothered. You haven't returned the favor.

Nobody "owes you an apology" for failing to recognize your self-described brilliance. And no, I'm not "projecting" anything... I'm angry as hell, but you can choke on my abnormally large projection if you think I'm going to sit idly by while you trash me. You're not the victim you think you are. You're jealous, manipulative and full of self-pity. That does not make you a victim... and blaming the rest of the world for your inadequacies is not going to make you a better person in the long run.

It's not the publishing industry that's at fault for "misunderstanding you". It's not the folk at Don't Date Him who are at fault for "misunderstanding you". It's certainly not my fault when you throw tantrums because I had the temerity to disagree with something you said.

You had the opportunity to address this with me and you chose to trash me to everyone BUT me. I have lost every shred of respect I may have ever had for you. Guess what? That doesn't make you a fucking victim and it doesn't make me a villian. You need to grow up and stop blaming everyone and everything and finding ways of protesting your innocence when you're doing SO MUCH to bring shit on yourself. No, that's not a projection on my part. That's an assessment. I don't know how you'll manage to change that into it being my fault and convince yourself that you are a special and unique snowflake, but I have no doubt you'll figure something out. It's what you do.

 

____________________
"I believe that woman is planning to shoot me again."

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 618
Registered: 27/9/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/12/2007 at 04:43 PM
Well now...it's amazing what I miss when I switch up my sleeping schedule.

I'm completely in love with the smiley. In fact, in some forums I have to practically sit on my hands not to post it. I just wanted to mention that for the sheer joy of mentioning my longtime favourite smiley.

Personally, I find well-placed sarcasm to be funny more often than I find it offensive, but we all see it through different eyes and different moods.

My take on Sorrow's post was that I thought it was probably an attempt at showing that he might have been trying to "stand the heat" and "stay in the kitchen". If that was what he was doing, then it's somewhat refreshing or at the very least interesting enough to find out if he'll come back and post some more.

 

____________________
"When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I've never tried before." ~Mae West


 

Member




Posts: 199
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/12/2007 at 05:20 PM
Jesus. Fucking. Christ. People, try the decaf.

 

____________________
Plenty of time, my sweet. Plenty of time.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 897
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/12/2007 at 05:24 PM
*spits her energy drink all over the keyboard*

Rogue, you are the best!

 

____________________
"You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and
the
/>

dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest />
of


girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"

 
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