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Politics: The Ten Commandments |
Posted by
ariadne on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 05:07 AM PST
Here in Alabama there has been a waste of christian outrage concerning a monument of the ten commandments. While christians camped out in protest at the Montgomery judicial building, a little girl went missing on her way to a school bus stop. The latter did not make the headlines and the little girl is still missing to this day, probably dead by now. What is my point?
I do not see how protecting such a monument was productive. One protester was screaming as the monument was rolled away, "Get your hands off our God". What the hell is that?
Now the christians of Alabama are screaming "discrimination" and "persecution". This thing known as "Doing the Work of the Lord" sickens me. I cannot fathom how protecting an image made of stone is worthy of any sort of outrage. Many of these protesters were camped out crying and praying and I cannot understand why.
I see value in all religions even christianity but these kinds of christians I find annoying. I would think that going out and helping those in need or helping the missing girl's parents would have been actively making a difference and showing what "God's Work" truly means. For sane christians out there, this is not the way to win people to Christ.
Christ? Didn't he state something in the bible about praying in public? I believe it was something about praying in private. Oh well.
Moving along, there is a failure to see the importance of the separation of church and state by many christian organizations. If it was allowed for christian monuments to be placed in front of a judicial building what does that say to the non-christian in search of justice? If christian idols were posted in front of government buildings and children were forced to pray in school we would live in a country that would be intolerant of other beliefs.
The separation of church and state is imperative for those of us who are not christian to feel free to live and worship without fear of discrimination or persecution.
It appears that many christian fundamentalists are so aggressive in their intolerance of other faiths without an understanding that "all the Gods are one" and that "the lamp may be different but the light is the same." Once certain christians get to this point they may finally be perceived in a better light. They might even be understood to be possessors of a legitimate faith. Until this happens, they will continue to frighten many of us "sinners" away.
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The Ten Commandments | Login/Create an account | 50 Comments |
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Re: The Ten Commandments
by Meranda_Jade (Meranda@mymind.com)
on Nov 11, 2003 - 07:26 AM
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MAT 06:05 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for
they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the
streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their
reward.
MAT 06:06 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou
hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father
which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
There you go. I just love it when the hypocritical christians disobey their own book. There's also something about not worshipping idols as well, which I think this falls under.
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Re: The Ten Commandments by LadyCygnet (whydoyouneedit@inane.com) on Nov 11, 2003 - 11:37 AM (User info | Send a Message) | Yeah...it's people like those that make me skip church and go for meditation to commune with God...
And yes, I think they are treating it as an idol...but I would be out there protesting too...but only from the aspect that it is a piece of art that pays tribute to a set of laws created long ago...kind of like blind Justice, only more controversial...and yeah, I'm still irritated about good ol' Ashcroft covering her nakedness...but that's another story for another time...
As for the kidnapped girl...she probably didn't get covered because the media are like that...if your parents aren't rich or powerful, they just don't care...it's heartbreaking and cold as it gets, but there it is...
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Public prayers by Arthegarn on Nov 12, 2003 - 08:32 AM (User info | Send a Message) | Well, I don't think the Gospel is talking here about actually praying in public as much as it's talking about making a show of your prayers, about praying to show off. Jesus hates hipocrisy and condemns it over and over, and it's that what is condemned here: acting as if you prayed when your thoughts are not really directed to God but to the peole surrounding you.
Jesus was quite fond of prating in public, as a matter of fact (he was not precisely alone when he taught the Our Father), and most Christian religions are based in ritualistic common prayer (i.e. mass). There is a lot to say in favour of public prayer as long as your praying intention is sincere. If you're there just for the acting, to be in the photo... Well, that's your freedom but I don't think Jesus would approve |
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Re: The Ten Commandments
by Anya on Nov 11, 2003 - 07:38 AM
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That's funny. In the Bible, there's many speakings against idolatry. A lot of Southern Baptists I know of jab at Catholics for "idolatry", which to them is having statues of Yeshua and Mary. Now they go off claiming that the statue is their God? Isn't that idolatry in itself? Oh well.
I do not understand how the situation is persecution and discrimination. For one, they can still practice their religion and still probably get away with denouncing other religions (could be wrong, just my experience in the South). I mean you don't see many cases of people making an issue of tearing down Buddhist or Shinto statues in the minor places that they're at in North America.
As Arthegarn told me many times: fanaticism is evil.
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Re: The Ten Commandments
by Comedian (eccentrically_long@yahoo.com)
on Nov 11, 2003 - 09:16 AM
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I'd rather see one false god in a courtroom than no god at all. The danger is in not having at least some kind of coda.
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Re: The Ten Commandments by ravinsaend on Nov 11, 2003 - 08:56 PM (User info | Send a Message) http:// | If god exists in the courtroom, then god's laws exist in the courtroom. That is the point. HUMAN laws are the only laws that belong in a courtroom. If god is allowed in the courtroom, then people will be(and are) unjustly discriminated against for every tiny thing that is outside the judge's perception of christianity. especially in the south. I speak from experience. |
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Re: The Ten Commandments by Domkitten (saradevil@saradevil.com) on Nov 11, 2003 - 11:40 PM (User info | Send a Message) http://www.saradevil.com | Interestingly enough humans make more laws monitering the day to day life of other humans than god ever thought of, so most of the laws discriminating against humans were already made by humans. |
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Re: The Ten Commandments by ravinsaend on Nov 12, 2003 - 08:05 PM (User info | Send a Message) http:// | So true. The difference is that Human laws discriminate against ALL humans, not just the ones that don't believe in them. I'd much rather be hated for who I am, than hated for who I'm not. |
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Re: The Ten Commandments
by feralucce (Iwouldliketokillyou@gofuckyourself.com)
on Nov 11, 2003 - 10:54 AM
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I honestly, do not blame them... they have had a tribute to their beliefs in place for the last 100 years... now they are told that they cannot. This is not a case of "no you cannot build it." it is a case of, "This tribute must be removed." while, essentially, the same thing... there is a massive emotional difference. I wold be angry in a simialy situation. And I might make a huge deal of it as well.
Feral
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Re: The Ten Commandments by callei on Nov 12, 2003 - 05:10 AM (User info | Send a Message) http://http:// | I can totally understand thier anger and thier attempts to keep someting that speaks to them of thier past, the present, thier god, and truely thier whole way of life. It is really awful and people/society distroying to have your monuments pulled down and debased. having some stronger outside force come in to your place and tell you that you cant live the way that you have (collective you here) for hundreds of years must be really awful for them.
Just as the Hawaiians and the "native" americans how they feel about it. |
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Re: The Ten Commandments by Anya on Nov 12, 2003 - 06:58 AM (User info | Send a Message) http://kirashi.envy.nu | I suppose you guys have a point. I just thought like I did mainly because I do not really see much of a hassle if it was another person's practices in certain areas of the US. |
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Re: The Ten Commandments by Arthegarn on Nov 15, 2003 - 08:38 AM (User info | Send a Message) | I thoroughly agree, Feral, but... Making such an issue about that? That's not for me, at least. In Spain we have loads of statues of Saints (we even have a monument to the Devil, bloody famous thing) and from time to time they are removed and nothing happens. Some icons have a very big weight in some people's beliefs out of tradition , the ones you see in processions (Such as the Virgen del Carmen or the Virgen del Rocio, or the Jesus del Gran Poder), but besides these things here in the second most Catholic country of the world nobody gives a damn about statues. |
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Re: The Ten Commandments
by Xaoswolf (Xaoswolfatvzavenuedotnet)
on Nov 11, 2003 - 07:53 PM
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OK, Nuts aside, the monument should have stayed.
For a couple reasons. One being that it was a monument to a code of lancient law, put in a building of law.
Another being, that you did not have to pray before it when you went to trial, you didn't have to do any special type of ceremony upon passing it. It was simply a statue, nothing more, nothing less. If a pagan went to court there, he shouldn't feel as though he wouldn't get a fair trial because the judge shouldn't ask anything about his religion in the first place.
Also, now that they removed the Christian monument, are they going to be removing the statue of Venus in front of the courthouse?
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Re: The Ten Commandments by ravinsaend on Nov 11, 2003 - 08:51 PM (User info | Send a Message) http:// | I can see a MAJOR problem that would occur if they got their way and the monument stayed. especially considering we're talking about a town in the southern united states smack in the midst of what is commonly regarded as the bible belt. I say this from experience. In those towns, there is the exact opposite of separation of church and state. christianity infuses EVERYTHING. You ARE forced to pray in school. Hell, they kick you out if you DON'T bend to their beliefs. permanently kick you out. They did me. They actually altered records just to get rid of me, because I refused to go to a prayer assembly.
If they can get away with that, imagine what they do in the judicial arenas. That monument being taken down is a step towards actually enforcing what the constitution of this country was based upon. Alot of southern towns are EXTREMELY intolerant of non-christians. Ever heard of the West Memphis Three? If not you should do a little research about them. It would provide some insight into why that monument coming down was so important. You may see it as one thing, but to our little southern baptists down in Alabama, that monument coming down is a major blow to the stranglehold they hold over their communities. No offense to any christians, specifically southern baptists, that may read this. Don't get me wrong. As individuals they are, for the most part, absolutely wonderful people, but due to the singularity and the base monotone of their concepts and beliefs, They tend to have a hard time accepting the possibility that anything else could be good enough to let exist. |
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Re: The Ten Commandments by ravinsaend on Nov 11, 2003 - 09:06 PM (User info | Send a Message) http:// | Oh, and as for the statue of Venus, or, as Feral said, the crosses in the graveyards and such..That's a decoration. To the christians in the south, christianity isn't just a religion, it's life. It's a part of everything in the communities, from the hospitals to the grocery stores, the schools to the courts.
If it had been there just to look pretty and, as some have said, as a rememberance of an ancient set of laws, as a monument to history, the fuss never would have been made, and it would be allowed to stay. Then again, if it were just for those purposes, why would that judge fight so hard, to the point where he KNEW he was going to be removed from the bench and his livelihood? Noone fights that hard unless it's something infringing upon their core beliefs. |
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Re: The Ten Commandments by Xaoswolf (Xaoswolfatvzavenuedotnet) on Nov 13, 2003 - 10:25 AM (User info | Send a Message) http://Xaoswolf.tripod.com | Decoration?
Bullshit, it's a religious icon. It needs taken down.
I demand equal protection under the law
Then again, if it were just for those purposes, why would that judge fight so hard, to the point where he KNEW he was going to be removed from the bench and his livelihood?
Yeah, he was upholding the constitution, which has nothing in it saying that you can't put up a fucking statue... |
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Re: The Ten Commandments by Arthegarn on Nov 15, 2003 - 08:51 AM (User info | Send a Message) | Well if things are as Ravinsaend tells, I am the first to claim the monument should have been put down. You see
a) The monument might be a tribute to the historic basis of most United States laws OR it might be a tribute to Law itself OR it mught be a symbol of claiming the divinity of law and justice (through a judaic, easily understood by most people, symbol), or whatever. It might even have been a tribute to the religion and belief system that largely permeates the life and law-making of the United States. Then it was harming no one.
b) The monument might be a reminder of where the United States Laws are derived from, and so how should they be interpreted, OR a tribute to the God who created law and permeates it OR a symbol that God and actions done in the name of God, fountain of all law and justice are above the law, OR EVEN a reminder that the source of law is divine and not humane. Then it should be removed.
The problem is that, as with most monuments, it probably was a symbol of the time it was erected, and told different people different things. |
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Re: The Ten Commandments by ravinsaend on Nov 15, 2003 - 08:36 PM (User info | Send a Message) http:// | The way I understand things, The judge(Can't remember his name) that was ordered to take it down was also the one who had it erected. |
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Re: The Ten Commandments by Xaoswolf (Xaoswolfatvzavenuedotnet) on Nov 13, 2003 - 10:29 AM (User info | Send a Message) http://Xaoswolf.tripod.com | So, instead of actually attacking the problem, you are going after a statue that is legal and has nothing to do with the actual problem.
Good job... |
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Re: The Ten Commandments by Xaoswolf (Xaoswolfatvzavenuedotnet) on Nov 13, 2003 - 10:43 AM (User info | Send a Message) http://Xaoswolf.tripod.com | That was in referance to the part about the school prayer.
As for the three, well, in their trial, why the hell didn't their lawyer get rid of any jurors that were super baptists? |
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Re: The Ten Commandments by Xaoswolf (Xaoswolfatvzavenuedotnet) on Nov 13, 2003 - 10:32 AM (User info | Send a Message) http://Xaoswolf.tripod.com | Well, since you choose your own tomb stone, and many grave yards are on chruch land, what's your point?
Also, symbolism from many religions is all throughout our govenment and it's building practices. Why is christianity the only one singled out?
If you are going to kick one out, they all have to go. |
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Re: The Ten Commandments by Arthegarn on Nov 17, 2003 - 07:56 AM (User info | Send a Message) | And the "In God we trust" from dollars... |
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Re: The Ten Commandments by Starlight (elenmea@hotmail.com) on Nov 11, 2003 - 10:40 PM (User info | Send a Message) http://www.geocities.com/nony_one/index.html | Okay...having grown up in an area that being anything other than Christian automatically labelled you a Devil Worshipper...I have to say I completely agree with the separation of church and state.
When I started first grade, it was already illegal for you to be forced to pray in school. This did not matter to my first grade teacher. I remember her very well (and her name which I will not mention). She informed the class on the first day of school that we will be praying in class each and every day, and she did not care if we had a problem with that. She was a Southern Baptist and told us that if you put X-Mas instead of Christmas that you were X-ing Christ out. She also made it quite clear that if we told our parents that she made us pray and taught us her religion (in a public school...I did go to a private Catholic school for six middle years of school...but beginning and ending years were in public school) that she would deny it completely and make us look stupid. She did just that when I told my mother. She informed me that black was not a color it was a "neutral" and that it was the color of evil if we insisted it was a color. I was told that I was allowed to choose blue or green as a favorite color...not black...and no other "true" options in her opinion to choose from. She said I had a very creative imagination and put it on my report card which I saved for years. There was no other teacher in public school that ever made me so freaked out about religion...even when I went to Catholic school for crying out loud.
The courts there do not offer you an option of another book to swear on. They offer you the bible...you can state you swear to tell the truth...and then you just say you prefer not to swear on the bible.
There were several issues through the years regarding religious symbols (crosses ...statues of Jesus...etc.)being displayed at the courthouse and also on public park property...the courts who made the decisions on it...did have the items removed...they would simply remove them to privately owned business or home property and display them there.
Graves can have crosses....just the same as they can have pentagrams....Graveyards are not where lawsuits are filed or where people are sentenced to prison terms.
Angels are non-descript as to their religious significance...just as are gargoyles.
While I think it would be funny to put a pentagram on a courthouse...it would not be any more correct to do that than to put a cross or a virgin mary statue.
Laws are based on various things...most of the basic laws are based on what the majority of voters want them to be...such as murder and robbery and rape. They are determined to be based on the collective views of right and wrong. Most laws may have been influenced by the voter or lawmaker's religious or personal beliefs...but the collective beliefs...Christian, Pagan, Jew, Monkey-Worshippers, Athiests, and any other of the different beliefs of the U.S. population...the collective beliefs are what determine what is right and wrong according to the law. This is why it is improper to put an obviously religion-specific item openly in a courthouse for display, as it will make those of slightly different religious persuasion feel they are going to be prejudiced from the second they set foot in a courthouse, etc. |
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Re: The Ten Commandments by Anya on Nov 12, 2003 - 07:06 AM (User info | Send a Message) http://kirashi.envy.nu | Here's a big kick and an oxymoron: some courts exclude the Ten Commandments from the house since it's a religious thing, yet they still make people swear on the Bible.
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Re: The Ten Commandments by ravinsaend on Nov 12, 2003 - 08:13 PM (User info | Send a Message) http:// | So long as you swear, they have to accept it. You just say you prefer not to swear on the bible. There're laws saying they have to accept it. |
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Re: The Ten Commandments by callei on Nov 12, 2003 - 09:06 PM (User info | Send a Message) http://http:// | that isnt there just for all the non-christians out there. there are sects of christianity that think it is wrong to swear on the bible. |
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Re: The Ten Commandments by ravinsaend on Nov 13, 2003 - 07:27 PM (User info | Send a Message) http:// | That's most likely what they would say as well, and while it IS tradition, and one I've no problem with so long as they don't force you to swear on it if you don't want to, personally I think they're just afraid of pissing off the christian population of the states too much. Look at what the whole removal of the monument thing brought about. The christian population IS by far the majority of the US population, after all.
That's just what *I* think though. Don't get me wrong. I've no problem with christianity. I believe in it myself. But unlike alot of supposedly tolerant, open minded poeple in this country I believe in tolerance as well.
I'll tolerate anything that in and of itself doesn't hurt anyone. But this whole thing with the monument DOES. That monument being there would make ANYONE not christian or perhaps christian but a little different feel that they were going to be tried unjustly and persecuted, and being that it's in the bible belt, they'd probably be right. Enforcing separation of church and state is EXTREMELY important in the bible belt if people actually expect to be treated even semi-fairly anywhere in that strip of the country.
And now I'm rambling so I'm done. |
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Re: The Ten Commandments by Arthegarn on Nov 17, 2003 - 08:03 AM (User info | Send a Message) | Down here we don't swear in Court since Franco died. Now, simply, the judge orders the witness to tell the truth and warns him or her of the penalty for perjury. The crime of perjury is still called so, but it has no longer anything to do with perjury itself. It has to do with lying to the Court. Swearing is an old tradition that's not neccesary anymore.
There are some moments in which the law demands a searing, though, but even that has changed so the official formula is "Do yo swear or promise to..." and the guy answers "I swear" or "I promise" as he sees fit |
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Re: The Ten Commandments by Domkitten (saradevil@saradevil.com) on Nov 11, 2003 - 11:38 PM (User info | Send a Message) http://www.saradevil.com | Actually, last time I checked that was not a statue of Venus it was a statue of Justice who was supposed to be blind so she would make not judgement on those who passed with ears open to the pleas of the supplecants and a pair of scales to weigh the details and make a fair and accurate descions.
However, I think they removed justice from the courthouse steps long before they ever installed the ten commandments. |
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Re: The Ten Commandments by Arthegarn on Nov 17, 2003 - 08:04 AM (User info | Send a Message) | Which is indeed one of the representations of Athena. Oh, my, more religious symbols... |
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Re: The Ten Commandments by callei on Nov 12, 2003 - 05:05 AM (User info | Send a Message) http://http:// | I had never heard of the "what was left after some old man got pissed and threw some" Commandments as a code of law. I had thought they were, as Comedian said, a coda, and a personal one at that; an agreement of basic behavior that a christian will strive to live by.
After all, only 3 or 4 of them have to do with things that hurt others (the basic idea of crime) while the rest say things like "be nice to your parents" and "Love Me more than anyone else". If you try to think of them as a set of laws, it gets a bit weird.
like fines and jail time for working/selling/not attending church all day on Sunday. Like going to jail because your neighbor thinks you are looking at his ass (yes i mean the play on words). Like fines and going to jail for thinking angels are real, wearing a pentagram, or having a super crush on a pop star.
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Re: The Ten Commandments by Arthegarn on Nov 15, 2003 - 08:42 AM (User info | Send a Message) | Damn agreed, The most internationally accepted representation of justice (the blindfolded woman with the sword and the balance) is a Greek myth and I haven't heard any Christians comlaining.
But knowing how bigot can some people get to be up there, maybe there are... |
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Re: Seperation of Church and State?
by Domkitten (saradevil@saradevil.com)
on Nov 11, 2003 - 11:43 PM
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Fact of the matter is it's much easier to move stones tan to actually remove the big G god from the courts.
You will still:
Swear on the Bible
Promise to tell the truth so help you God
be Judged fairly or unfairly
Stones are symbols that can easily be taken out. But Congress, one of the most important law making assemblies in the world still begins each session with a prayer. You can get God out of schools, and you can take the monuments off of steps, but you will have a very hard time really removing the big G from the courtroom or the lawmakers period.
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Re: Seperation of Church and State? by callei on Nov 12, 2003 - 05:20 AM (User info | Send a Message) http://http:// | That is sort of the heart of the "problem" with this whole monument thing.
Its the Christians fighting with themselves about what thier god really meant. After it was filtered by thier prophets.
The removal of the statue was in not predicated by satanists, shinto-ists, or new agers. It is a battle inside Christianity about what role thier faith has in thier lives. And what role they will allow other flavors of thier faith to have in thier lives. there is no intention of removing thier god from thier day to day lives, just an intention of making other christians believe in that god the same way that the first group (the ones with more money/power) do.
This is the same sort of battle as the gay bishop getting ordained. Its really a private christian issue that the rest of us should stay out of. |
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Re: Seperation of Church and State? by Anya on Nov 12, 2003 - 07:10 AM (User info | Send a Message) http://kirashi.envy.nu | I have to hand it to callei on her post. A lot of sects just cannot agree on how to interpret things. Sadly enough, the fundamental trend is spreading on other faiths, including the Pagan ones. |
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Re: Seperation of Church and State? by ravinsaend on Nov 12, 2003 - 08:09 PM (User info | Send a Message) http:// | Actually, You can refuse to swear by the bible or by those words. There are laws that make it so you can swear by your own beliefs. |
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Re: Seperation of Church and State? by Xaoswolf (Xaoswolfatvzavenuedotnet) on Nov 13, 2003 - 10:39 AM (User info | Send a Message) http://Xaoswolf.tripod.com | In fact, of all the times I've gone to court, I never swore on the bible (wasn't even offered) and I think only one judge said "God" at the end. |
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Re: Seperation of Church and State? by ravinsaend on Nov 13, 2003 - 07:35 PM (User info | Send a Message) http:// | For the most part that's only done anymore during jury trials, and mostly in the higher up, older, more established court systems. Most that do it either do it all for show, when publicity is involved, or purely out of tradition. I've never been offered a bible to swear on, myself, but I know a couple pople who have, and they told me the bible was only brought out after the press arrived. |
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Re: Seperation of Church and State? by Arthegarn on Nov 17, 2003 - 08:08 AM (User info | Send a Message) | When I was in Texas I attended several Federal cases and they all swore on the bible, and told the truth "so help me God" (and the accused begged forgiveness to God for their crimes, by the way... which usually was border crossing...) |
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Re: Seperation of Church and State? by feralucce (Iwouldliketokillyou@gofuckyourself.com) on Nov 13, 2003 - 11:20 AM (User info | Send a Message) http://feralucce.vibechild.com | what it boils down to is this... if you refuse to use those words, in many courts, they can excuse you... in any other case... you automatically label yourself as a problem witness... many, even pagans, will view you as someone who cannot be trusted to do less just rock the boat.
Feral |
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Re: Seperation of Church and State? by ravinsaend on Nov 13, 2003 - 07:28 PM (User info | Send a Message) http:// | It depends on how you go about refusing it, actually.
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Re: The Ten Commandments
by Shepardshadows (shepardshadows@moomia.com)
on Nov 14, 2003 - 01:55 AM
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One of the many reason I shall remain, as always, a devout athiest.
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Re: The Ten Commandments by callei on Nov 18, 2003 - 07:02 PM (User info | Send a Message) http://http:// | howling mad athesists are more fun at a party tho. and they tend not to carry around 14 foot tall crosses and hit people with them.
or hurl bibbles at you.
they may howl and rail and hurl insults, but those are much easier to ignore than 100 pounds or splintery wood or tissues paper thin paper moving at speed. |
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Re: The Ten Commandments by Meranda_Jade (Meranda@mymind.com) on Nov 18, 2003 - 07:20 PM (User info | Send a Message) |
The Mormons showed up at my door today. They asked if I'd heard of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and I informed them that I had the unfortunate experience of growing up in Utah. Ignoring my use of the word unfortunate, they asked where in Utah, and I told them Price, in Carbon county, and Castle Dale in Emery county. One of them said he knew of those places, and was trying to chit chat with me about them. He asked if I were interested in hearing more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and I said, I've heard enough, thank you, as a matter of fact, I was involved with a youth group for a few months as a teenager. He asked why I wasn't interested in hearing more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and at that point, I lost my patience. I told him that Joseph Smith was a two-bit fraud, and the only reason he got away with it and David Koresh didn't was because they didn't have the kind of media and skepticism that we have these days. That it was a manufactured religion created by an egomaniac. I said the story didn't sound plausible in my 7th grade Utah history course, and it sounds even less plausible at this point in my life. Besides, I informed them, I like caffeine and alcohol way too much to give it up for a latter-day prophet. I think they were crying when they left.
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Re: The Ten Commandments by callei on Nov 19, 2003 - 05:17 AM (User info | Send a Message) http://http:// | I really wonder if they ever get any converts from bothering people at home. I mean what are the rates of recruitment and have they tried other methods to see what is the most effective and least likely to get thier paying members shot?
I have sometimes wondered if they only make thier boys do it to try to reduce the number of men. I mean those poor kids have to face such ridecule and, every so often, a loaded .38. |
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Re: The Ten Commandments by Starlight (elenmea@hotmail.com) on Nov 19, 2003 - 06:35 AM (User info | Send a Message) http://www.geocities.com/nony_one/index.html | I had a couple of Mormon fellows standing outside in the snow in the early part of the year, and they asked the questions about do I have faith...do my beliefs make me happy and give me comfort...what are my beliefs, etc.
I told them that I have beliefs...yes they make me happy...yes my life goes wonderfully...and that quite frankly it would take a good deal of time to explain my beliefs properly.
They said they didn't mind it taking awhile, and I told them that it was snowing too hard for them to be outside walking around...let alone standing still and freezing...so they should probably head on to get out of the snow...they actually agreed.
I've had Mormons as friends/acquaintances, and they've not shoved their beliefs on me...but that's probably just because I usually just let them tell me their side of it and listened and then the subject would get changed. |
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Re: The Ten Commandments by Starlight (elenmea@hotmail.com) on Nov 20, 2003 - 08:17 AM (User info | Send a Message) http://www.geocities.com/nony_one/index.html | Speaking of Mormons...I just finished answering the door and there were two of them at my door. I only answered the door because they sounded like they were trying to beat it down. After being nice to them for about a minute and my refusing to let them in to talk to me, I told them they ought to go and try someone else and the guy sort of looked shocked and repeated "try someone else" like it didn't compute. So I closed the door and they walked off. I think I might put up a no soliciting sign that says "includes no proselytising". |
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