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Articles: an email and a response
Posted by callei on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 09:31 PM PST

Drama
I recently got an email from someone that wanted to tell me what goth really was and why I am not goth. Let's call her "duh". Duh told me that goth is a state of mind, the most over used phrase ever. Duh told me that it is only a style. Thank you Joan Rivers jr. She also told me that it was a way of seeing the world. Then she told me I was as ungoth as you can get and that she was a "true gothic". She also told me that she was 15 (I think) and raised in a suburb of some city that I have never heard of in some state in the middle of the country. I tried to be nice and give her food for thought. I may have over done it. You tell me… It is just a style to some people; that is their emotion/mental depth and they think that wearing this or that will give them friends. This is as deep as they get and it can be argued that since they have a limited mind, they also have a limited "state of mind." Every sub-culture has its hanger-ons and wanna-be-as-cool-as-yous. They look "goth" to some non-goths, but most people aren't fooled and tease them terribly, and I am not talking about being teased by goths alone here since most people tease them. But the truth in their hearts is that it is a fashion. That is their state of mind. Does that make them goth or make goth a "just" a fashion? Yes to them and no to other people.

I agree that there is more to goth than just buying the symbols associated with goth. But you need the symbols too. It is a matter of WHY you buy the clothes, read the books, etc. An unexpressed state of mind is more of a mood than a lifestyle or belief system. For example, if your gut feeling is to be nice to people, you tend to act on that feeling. It becomes a behavior, not just an idea. If your state of mind says that the ocean is the best place on earth, you tend to read about it, watch movies about it, think about it, move to be near it, decorate you house with it, wear clothes that express that love etc. If you buy "goth" things because you like them, feel more comfortable around or in them, and truly prefer them to other things, then is it "just a style" or just an expression of your style?

You are right that "goth" is a way of seeing the world, but what you see affects what you do; the abused child grows up to be an abuser, English speaking parents tend to raise children that speak English and so on. When it comes to teens in very sheltered and abusive homes, they may not dress what they feel, or listen to the music that matches their minds but this is due to external influences not internal desires. If they are strong enough, they tend to show it regardless of the abuse. If they are not quite that strong, they still show it, but in subtler ways. If they are overwhelmed by it, they tend to kill themselves.

The ones that live tend to the black clothes as soon as they can and you find them littering the coffee shops at two in the morning arguing about Nietzsche and Juno. Yes, and often smoking cloves.

What I am saying here is that what you think effects what you do. If you think you are goth, then you tend to do goth things, whatever those may be. That holds true whether or not you are really "goth." The fashion victims think they are goth, so they tend to do things that they think of as being "goth". The rest of us giggle at them, sleep with them, or borrow money of them, and sometimes even make friends with them.

Goths tend not to care what other people wear, since clothes don't make the man, they just make you street legal and keep your nipples from freezing off. A goth may tease you about what you wear, but they would tease you about what you eat, drink, say, think, the people you know or don't know, watch, dream about, drive, work for, etc.

We tend towards teasing. Less ego formed goths may even be mean about it. But keep in mind that they are still making the boundaries around their lives. They are working to make themselves and other people are the mirrors that they have to use to see what they are making.

More ego formed goths tend to tease you about your actions instead of the symbols that you own. They tease you for being late, early, still going to x-place, or doing x thing, your job, or something like that.

Think about what you emailed me. You attacked my way of life, my friends' way of life, and total strangers that share my way of life. You put bizarre labels on people based on how they are dressed. And then you made the ever-popular Uber goth statement. Glitter goth?
Glam goth?
And real gothic? (this was in response to her assessment of my "gothness". she decided that glitter goths are the only "real goths" and that they are properly called "gothic" not "glitter goth". I dont think she was trying to be funny.)

There are people who refuse the label goth, because they refuse to have people try to treat them as mopey, like the stereotype.
There are people who refuse to be labeled goth because they have waaaaaay to much fun with the art of self-expression and are walking performance art.
And no self-respecting goth would be called gothic.

The only people I know that call themselves "gothic" are fashion victims and the poor goths that get stuck hanging out with a crowd of them. Ok also the very young and unlearned goths sometimes self-label that way, but it is rare.

All your labels are immaterial to the people that live that way. You are trying to assign a fashion label to a set of actions, mixing metaphors as it were. Yes, those labels exist, but that does not make them anymore real than any other label.

Duh never wrote back to me. I wonder why.





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Re: an email and a response
by ravinsaend (-)
on May 28, 2002 - 09:56 PM
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I don't think you overdid it, really. I just think it probably overloaded her young little brain to hear the views of a truly open-minded person.
Happens sometimes. too often, actually.
You've a good cheer from me(I'd give ya three but I'm just feeling too lazy after my weekend fun)


Re: an email and a response
by bettie_x (strangersangel@hotmail.com)
on May 28, 2002 - 11:40 PM
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Well if you write stupid emails, you have to expect something...I prefer to belive that you overloaded her, she had an aneurism and is in a vegetable ward somewhere, unable to properly "glitterize" her "gothic" behind by herself.
15 and so wise...how does that happen? I love it when little kids know everything, takes a load off of me having to be an educated adult...Man, I didn't NEED to have been there and done that, SHE'S got it all figured out at the ripe old age of 15! SHE"LL impart her highschool wisdom on me...WHEW!
What a load off.

"gothic".....*giggle* ooo that's rich.

Email her for me with this:

My black is blacker than your black.

with darkened thoughts of ravens in graveyards
bettie X

dimwit



*nod*
by VampCourt (Morbidchic@hotmail.com) on May 29, 2002 - 05:05 PM
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there is to many kiddy winkies that want to be badasses. I say let em run with the big dogs.. *nods*


it will be stories that they can tell thier granchiles.


mmmm.. children. *burp*


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Re: *nod*
by bettie_x (strangersangel@hotmail.com) on May 30, 2002 - 08:31 PM
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yeah if they live that long after fussing with the wrong rivethead or an ubergoth with a short temper and a criminal history...
Let them run, let them hide, we always end up getting them SOMEDAY...*burp*


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Re: Re: *nod*
by callei (plyn@plynlymon.com) on May 31, 2002 - 05:03 AM
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just for a quick definition here... isnt it redundant to say Ubergoth with a short fuse and a criminal record? Is that part of being an Uber? Don't ubers all know thier Mirandas, just when they can legally beat the stuffing out of someone, and the number for legal aid in thier town?


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Re: Re: Re: *nod*
by bettie_x (strangersangel@hotmail.com) on May 31, 2002 - 08:29 PM
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We must have our uber definitions mixed up :)
MY "UBER" is a big haired, ridiculously pretentious, gother than thou, snotty "I have every death in june album and I'm email buddies with peter murphy" ubergoth.
To take care of "duh" add scoop of short fuse, dash of criminal record, shake well, light rag in top of black bottle and light..stand back (their hair...all that aquanet there and the absinthe and vodka swimming in their system...virtual human torch, man)
YOUR idea of uber, from what I gathered, is me when I take the time to goon up and hit the bar :)
Just kidding...well well, now we can start a new chat forum, WIUG? (what is uber goth?)

It's all INSIDE, man, and you can't know 'cause you're OUT THERE..not INSIDE man, 'cause you're all out there when it's all IN HERE *best charles manson voice*


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Re: Re: Re: Re: *nod*
by callei (plyn@plynlymon.com) on May 31, 2002 - 11:03 PM
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i guess im thinking of real goth again... oops


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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: *nod*
by bettie_x (strangersangel@hotmail.com) on Jun 01, 2002 - 11:56 AM
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*snicker*
you make me laugh c :) See? Even teenage morons bring out the best in people, don't they?


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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: *nod*
by callei (plyn@plynlymon.com) on Jun 01, 2002 - 12:02 PM
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is this becoming one of those"everythign is art" kinda conversations?

I posted this one cause i thought i had done a decent job messing with her mind and had a good laugh over it. I glad I shared the joke.


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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: *nod*
by bettie_x (strangersangel@hotmail.com) on Jun 07, 2002 - 12:11 AM
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baby I'm always in your corner when it comes to the festivites. FINALLY someone who shares a sense of humor...


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Re: an email and a response
by Schizo on May 29, 2002 - 04:56 AM
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Poor duh.

Why is it that so many people have to go around saying "I'm goth and you're not"? Why do they think it matters? Does being goth make you somehow superior to society?

I think it's a sign of really low self-esteem. When someone's whole life is wrapped up in being a "true gothic" you know they aren't comfortable with themselves. As for me, I could give a shit less whether I'm "true gothic" or not. If someone told me I wasn't a goth, my first reaction would be "oh really? that's interesting!" and go on doing whatever I was doing.

And what is it with these 15 year olds who know everything? How come I didn't know everything when I was 15? Why does it seem that the younger you are, the more sure you are that you've drunk from the fountain of knowledge? The more I live, the more I realize that I am damn inexperienced, and there are worlds of things I know nothing about.

But wow these teenagers! If the world were run by teenagers, what would it be like? I'm sure they'd fix everything...



Re: Re: an email and a response
by Devin (devin-at-vibechild-dot-com) on May 29, 2002 - 07:25 AM
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I knew everything when I was 15, I dunno what you're talkin about. *Sigh* wish I was 15 again. It's all downhill from there.


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Re: Re: Re: an email and a response
by callei (plyn@plynlymon.com) on May 29, 2002 - 09:31 AM
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I think i peaked somewhere in the 14s, but you couldntr make me go back to the horrors of highschool, virginity, and group dates.


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Re: Re: Re: Re: an email and a response
by Devin (devin-at-vibechild-dot-com) on May 29, 2002 - 11:36 AM
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Now it's all about Highschool Uniforms, Fantasy Virgin scenes, and Group Sex.


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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: an email and a response
by callei (plyn@plynlymon.com) on May 29, 2002 - 11:48 AM
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darlin' that is about the crudest and funniest thing you have posted in a while.


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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: an email and a response
by Devin (devin-at-vibechild-dot-com) on May 29, 2002 - 04:15 PM
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Why thank you my dear. Told you I was feeling more sociable :)


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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: an email and a response
by bettie_x (strangersangel@hotmail.com) on May 29, 2002 - 10:50 PM
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a regular social mothra, you've become, devin :)
You couldn't PAY me to go back to highschool...NO amount would get me to do it all over..
fat
ugly
antisocial
no friends
bullies
you'd never take me alive! NEVER!


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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: an email and a response
by callei (plyn@plynlymon.com) on Jun 01, 2002 - 12:34 PM
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actually i was popular, had some really close friends, thin, pretty, good grades, afterschool activities, secretary of my class one year, student counsel, volleyball team, and beat the screaming piss out of anyone that tried to be a real dick about my hair/clothes.
My town also had an underage dance club that had goth night every saturday and a traveling club that came thru every few weeks. I was 30 minutes from San Fran.
the part that really sucked was when i was anywhere other than school,work or the clubs. also not being able to sign a lease, having to be polite to insane or ignorant adults just because i was a kid, the fact that nearly everything i did was illegal just because i was a kid, and the fact that they could pay me less, again, just because i was a kid. those are the parts that sucked to me. oh and the fact that as females, we arent actually citizens until we get married bothered the living hell out of me.


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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: an email and a response
by bettie_x (strangersangel@hotmail.com) on Jun 07, 2002 - 12:14 AM
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aw, so jealous...why? See above post and add:

Small town
Lived in a bubble
Antisocial
did I already say fat?
how 'bout miserable?

man, when they said those would be the best days of my life they LIED to me...thank HELL

oh, add "unattractive virgin" to the tally, will you?


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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: an email and a response
by callei (plyn@plynlymon.com) on Jun 07, 2002 - 07:19 AM
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dont be. i was still a teen and still in highschool. the main hells were the same.


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Re: an email and a response
by Cashmere (-)
on May 29, 2002 - 05:39 AM
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If you were overdoing it, you would not have supported yourself so well. This peron was not expecting an actual lesson when she wrote to you; she was expecting a bitter retort so that she could be satisfied in bringing someone else's self confidence down. She sounds to me lik on of those people who make snide comments about the girl in glasses and then cries to herself on why she isn't liked. You did not give er the answer she expected, so maybe she feels threatened. You showed yourself confident of your beliefs by supporting them in an accessible way. It is now up to Duh to see if she can accept the knowledge given to her.


I swear, these people embarass me on behalf of (around and slighlty younger than) my generation.


Re: an email and a response
by Arthegarn on May 29, 2002 - 07:07 AM
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Overdone? Well, I am not completely sure what do you mean by that (or what does it mean, whatsoever), but the only comment I can post after reading your disertation is:

"It was not honey made for the donkey's mouth, nor pearls to be thrown to the pigs"

Most likely she didn't get it and, if she did, I don't think she can appreciate the beautifully exposed truth beneath the words.

And my black is the idea of black

Arthegarn



Re: Re: an email and a response
by callei (plyn@plynlymon.com) on May 29, 2002 - 09:39 AM
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overdone means something like overcooked, over elaborate, intensely rococo. an example would be asking for a cup of coffee and getting a cup of coffee with cinamon, chocolate, milk, cream, sugar, honey, lime, froth, sprinkles and rum.
a woman with so much so much jewelry that she cant move her fingers or hold her head up is overdone.
another venacular would be TMI (too much information) although this is used mostly between people that know each other and to each others faces. overdone is more often used about a person that you dont know well, or is not part of your prefered group of friends.


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Re: an email and a response
by IamSquid (AAA@sockmonkeys.net)
on May 29, 2002 - 11:00 AM
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That's what being 15 is all about. Im 22 and Im the first to admit I dont know evreything--I dont even know how fish work.

My friend told mee that 1 in 6 people think theyre cool. To mee, cool is something in the eyes of other people. I interprit this 1 in 6 people is conceited. People who call themselves "goth" always seem to have something to prove.

Scenes suck anyway.



Re: Re: an email and a response
by VampCourt (Morbidchic@hotmail.com) on May 29, 2002 - 05:02 PM
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im reading this and agreeing. yes yes.


Im not goth.. im not punk.. im not hippy.. im not a midgit... im just court. Ive got nothin to prove.

wOot.


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Re: Re: Re: an email and a response
by bettie_x (strangersangel@hotmail.com) on May 29, 2002 - 10:52 PM
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But you ARE a cutie tho :)
and when you coming to see me! I'm awfully impatient...


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Re: Re: Re: Re: an email and a response
by VampCourt (Morbidchic@hotmail.com) on May 30, 2002 - 05:13 AM
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well i will be officially on the west end of the USA. twards the end of june.. :) i'll get settled and stuff.. and then lets hang.. wOot!!


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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: an email and a response
by bettie_x (strangersangel@hotmail.com) on May 30, 2002 - 08:34 PM
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HELL YAH sistah, we'll get all superfined up and tease the kids hanging outside the bars 'cause they're underage *bwahahahha*
There IS a new venue open in tacoma called the drake...fetish/goth/industrial/metal/darkwave night every thursday...four floors of fun, lady. I got some free passes so michael and I will scope it out and see if it's worth it...cheap entry ($8.00 ALWAYS...even when they get big acts to play while they're in town).
This is SOOOOOO off topic..but hey. It's all in good fun.


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Re: an email and a response
by Xaoswolf (Xaoswolf@hotmail.com)
on May 30, 2002 - 12:06 PM
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Beautiful response, though I was kinda hoping for some kind of verbal boxing match, imagining this poor girl sitting in front of her computer in a daze trying to understand adult speech is also a rather pleasing thought.



Re: Re: an email and a response
by bettie_x (strangersangel@hotmail.com) on May 30, 2002 - 08:37 PM
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yeah, somthing other than "man I can't wait till I'm 18 so I'm legal and johnathan taylor from KORN can fuck me" and "is that new eyeliner? Where did you steal it from?" and "Oh my GOTH, that is like, so totally DARK and stuff..."
I can see her skull bulging in agony now as the air releases and the little peach pit of brain matter stretches it's atrophed frontal lobes and screams.
I adore teenagers...don't know what YOU guys are talking about...LUV 'EM!!


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Re: an email and a response
by Beautiful_Nobody on May 30, 2002 - 11:10 PM
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Well, are you friends with this "Duh" person?? I don't think Duh had a right telling you what you can and cannot be. Espically since you seem to have a mature response. By that I mean you didn't write back saying "What the fuck?! BITCH I'MMA BEAT YO ASS, DIEEE" and fucknot.. you got your point across and hopefully that "true gothic" can get some more insite on what it feels like to have their ass meet someone's foot, if you keep telling people that they're not who they choose to be, then they'll mess with the wrong person and well.. heh. I know one girl, she wants to be goth because she can't. She wants to because she wants to support the stereotypes then freak out when they call her something. It's sad, really..


Offspring of the Damned.
by Dolorosa on May 31, 2002 - 05:06 AM
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Silly childrens...I hesitate to say she's a complete moron or something like that, because I have met some extremely enlightened kids (Kid being anyone from one year olds to twenty nine year olds by my train of thought, and yeah, that means I'm a kid too) she doesn't seem to be one though, maybe she's just trying to hard to catogorize things...I dunno' good job givin' her the ol' What-for though Callei. Theres always hope for the young, of course, especially when you teach 'em by fire.
And jus' 'cause...I don't happen to be a glam, glitter or uber goth...
I consider myself, a Gothorosa...yeah baby...



Re: Offspring of the Damned.
by callei (plyn@plynlymon.com) on May 31, 2002 - 06:14 AM
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i still get confused about the glam, glitter, mopey,bitter,romantic, cyber, net, hippy, phychobilly etc labels. ok the glitter one tends to stand out, especually in strobe lighting, but other than that who can tell?


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Re: Re: Offspring of the Damned.
by Dolorosa on May 31, 2002 - 06:25 AM
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I think it's all in the socks...yeah...definately.


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Re: Re: Re: Offspring of the Damned.
by callei (plyn@plynlymon.com) on May 31, 2002 - 06:43 AM
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wow you are good if you can tell a person's fashion sense by thier fishnets only! im impressed.


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Re: Re: Re: Re: Offspring of the Damned.
by bettie_x (strangersangel@hotmail.com) on May 31, 2002 - 08:37 PM
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mopey: look for track marks and bandaged wrists...listen for jangling of anti-depressants in their purses..beware of sudden uncontrolled sobbing, and blurting out beetlejuice lines like "my life is a dark room...one big, dark room" (these types are by FAR my favorite *snicker*)
glitter: can't miss it...if you suddenly go blind, you've found one.
glam: one half naked, other half furry.
psychobilly: primarily indicated by smell, and a cowboy hat.

You forgot one type, tho...mall rat goth. Also indicated by smell, overaccessorization, lack of parental supervision, obsessed with caffine and cold pills, and proclivity of the secret hand shake...the five finger discount.

I hereby impart my wisdom to you, my bretheren...I'm going to go sip some absinthe and practice my sulking and swooning ^*^


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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Offspring of the Damned.
by callei (plyn@plynlymon.com) on May 31, 2002 - 10:59 PM
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can i just say that i love you and your black is waaaay blacker than my black


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A Goth of a different color.
by Dolorosa on Jun 01, 2002 - 11:48 AM
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Oooh...thanks bettie...thats like watching a documentary, I like the one's with the killer whales myself. And although your black is by far blacker than my black...
My puce is pucer than your puce. Yeah babee!


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Re: A Goth of a different color.
by bettie_x (strangersangel@hotmail.com) on Jun 01, 2002 - 11:57 AM
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ew I despise puce...you can keep puce... :)


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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Offspring of the Damned.
by bettie_x (strangersangel@hotmail.com) on Jun 01, 2002 - 12:12 PM
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Awwww you're too nice....and after some more research I've found the others you mentioned. Ahem, pay attention class:
bitter: has a "been there, done that" attitude...they are rather confusing, as they sometimes masquerade as "ubers", but most commonly they are dressed plainly in black...they whine alot.

Romantic: *ugh* frilly shit and long coats...tries to speak with foreign accents and act like it's the 1700's...remember kids, pinkies UP!

cyber: watched the matrix too many times...either obcenely tight clothes, or for "non matrix" types, GIGANTIC glittery pants, goggles, can easily be tied in with "rave" goths. They have a hard time telling each other apart.

net: is only goth on the net...usually some wierdo with an uber spooky name who acts like a regular joe in the real world. Lives vicariously on the dark side of the net.

hippy: Super frilly as well, braless, and no makeup. Pretends often they are peasants of some medeval lord (significant other).

I think I'm gonna make my own genre...something stupid and see if I can get the kids to think it's cool....any ideas?


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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Offspring of the Damned.
by callei (plyn@plynlymon.com) on Jun 01, 2002 - 12:25 PM
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there is also corporate goth (yes they have a site), military goth (Dolo gets his own label!), sporting goth (think surf boards and skis), fetish goth (goths with too much money or sewing skills), rengoth (different in that they follow the ren faires and thier black leather is is blacker than black), and mommy/daddy goth (balances kids and corsettes/treanchcoats and can quote lion king and Harry potter)


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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Offspring of the Damned.
by Meranda_Jade (Meranda@mymind.com) on Jun 02, 2002 - 08:21 PM
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I'm a mommy goth! Gee I never knew what it was before! (and my kids quote from Nightmare before Christmas)


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Re: an email and a response
by firefly7 (-)
on Jun 02, 2002 - 08:53 AM
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It's a little confusing that some one in a "gothic state of mind" would go around telling people they don't really know that the person is "ungoth". A little judge-mental suburban teen- nothing wrong with it, but she seems a bit quirky none the less.


Re: an email and a response
by Brom_Cesare (brom_cesare@yahoo.com)
on Jun 06, 2002 - 03:16 AM
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Right on! I think you made her blow a fuse, or maybe she got glitter in her eye, went blind, & couldn't see to type a response. But seriously No i don't think you went to far, it's a commendable thing to try & enlighten the ignorant no matter if you succeed or not. I may not dress goth or wear any jewelery (piercings or such) but I'm still goth at heart.



Re: an email and a response
by Orange on Jun 06, 2003 - 03:03 AM
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why are you all making fun of her? who cares if shes still figuring herself out? If she learns from it, then great! If not..then she'll just not gain that imformation. She still a person, and she still deserves respect regardless of what she gives. Maybe she'll get the idea to be respectible later. If you don't like being teased why should you tease? I think you missed the point of that whole e-mail thing entirely.


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Re: an email and a response
by callei on Jun 06, 2003 - 08:52 AM
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Let me see if i can be really clear here...
We arent teasing her, we are examining a condradiction in terms of a stereotype. This "she" that you wish to protect insulted me and made fun of me (or tried to). and i was kind enough to write back anyways. Why should i baby her and play into the idea that she is too weak to hear the truth and deal with it? She wants to be a "goth" and "goths" arent big on that "im ok you're ok" philosophy, now are they? Even when they are out to save the world, they would still stop to kick a twit in the teeth and laugh at them.
Nobody "deserves" respect. respect is something you hand out to people when you think clapping would be silly. Its a choice you make, to respect someone, not something inherant in them. serial killers, baby rapers, and parking lot attendants are also people and i dont respect them just for being bipedal and mamilian.
Why should i tease her? why not is a better question. Pointed reference to one's mistakes often are more informative than gentle corrections. And its more fun.
and with that in mind.... I am supposed to "respect" you just because you can type? Leeme guess, you too are still in highschool, live in a burb, and have someone to pay your bills for you. or are you one of those (my new favorite group to tease) a netgoth?
If goth is only on the inside, then why do i own shoes? (yes this is a zen thing....). And learn how to use the words in this language before you try to bash someone.
Im rambling (again) so i'll close this one up by saying:
get a grip on your fishnets and open your mind to the idea of humour and satire and fun. pansy.


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Re: an email and a response
by Meranda_Jade (Meranda@mymind.com) on Jun 06, 2003 - 11:32 PM
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>She wants to be a "goth" and "goths" arent big on that "im ok you're ok" philosophy, now are they? Even when they are out to save the world, they would still stop to kick a twit in the teeth and laugh at them.


... present company excluded... I have this unfortunate habit of seeing the good in damn near everybody... I respect your right to kick the twit in the teeth, (after all, somebody's got to, right? And it's damn funny when you do...) It's when I can no longer see the good in somebody that I show my fangs. Maybe this girlie deserved a good talking-to. She needed to understand a bit of the world she was not yet used to. Coming off with an attack of your own is a good way to get kicked in the teeth by a pro. She got the lesson she needed to learn. Thank everything out there that it was not me that had to give out this lesson.


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Re: an email and a response
by Orange on Jun 10, 2003 - 09:04 PM
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merg!!! yes, I'm in high school. yes I live in nowhere land out here with the beatles nowhere man..and yes my parents pay my bills. It's all quite cute isn't it? Are't you filled with glee that you are SO right and I am so pathetically put down? Or is that to below you? Should I even ask questions? I think that question right there will get me kicked in the ass. I'm not really goth...so I can't really say anything on this idea. I'm just kinda..being...breathing..sadly. I just don't understand people. I understand humour...and I understand making fun of people you know. I just think that you should leave her alone. Since really, you sent her a fine response with good support for your ideas that I liked. I just I guess that analyzing things is okay. Usually analysis comes without emtion on the topic. Seems like some people get pretty annoyed by this girl. Probably by me too...me and my house that is paid for by mom! I just...either my eyes are to far open or I'm just your typical twit...but you know....I think you'll opt for twit. Rather than considering me something possibly at a level near yours, with a diffrent outlook. yes, that does make sense with a little thought. Well, you'll do as you like I suppose. I'm not really one to try and really stop you. I'm just kinda curious. Oh and this is not ment to be funny or rude...but why call me a pansy? I'm not a boy...I'm not really a sissy girl. I just am being. It's weird that you would call pansy since my name is Daisy. Well...flowers are flowers and I suppose this is where In silence myself and fall back into my little stupid mind.


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Re: an email and a response
by callei on Jun 11, 2003 - 10:38 AM
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You comments and "different outlook" suggested a certain age and social set so i meantioned that. Does it thrill me that you are average? no. nor does it move me in any way.
The use of the word pansy was using slang from the period of my teen years when just about anyone and everyone was called pansy, not just boys or "sissy" girls (tho I am interested to know what a sissy girl is).
And i think you still missed the point of the article, and the point of many (not all i grant you) of the responses. How seriously could you take it if some 6 year old wanted to tell you how to be a teenager and why you were doing it wrong? would you take the time to tell them that the teen years arent just like one of thier cartoons? would you take the time to show them where they were right and where thier model fell short of the reality? Or would you laugh at them and tell that they would understand when they were older?
When someone half my age trys to tell me that i havent earned the right to pick my own clothes and read the books i want to read, i have to laugh and wonder why they think they know more about my life than i do.
And i am laughing now, but i take the time to smile at babies too.


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Re: an email and a response
by Orange on Jun 16, 2003 - 02:38 AM
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yes, yes, your right, you do laugh and younger children when they think they know things..because they are ignorant. you know..with further thought to your last reponse..the one before this one..the second one..i realized that you do make a lot of sense..anyway..thanks for the good argument/conversation it's good to get to challenge view points


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Re: an email and a response
by callei on Jun 17, 2003 - 09:12 AM
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Thank you, Im glad i found an analogy/metaphor that worked for you. And asking questions is how we all learn. If you notice, we answered when you asked. We laughed too, but we did answer.


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Re: an email and a response
by bettie_x (strangersangel@hotmail.com) on Jun 06, 2003 - 01:54 PM
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respect is not something to be given freely like candy from the back of a pedophile's van. You earn it. Act as you wish to be treated, and if you email someone being trite, rude, and stupid, then that person deserves the image they have portrayed themselves as.


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Re: an email and a response
by griffith (-)
on Nov 01, 2003 - 05:10 PM
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I think Duh needs to wake up, get some fresh air, and keep her neck clear of things that she does not want to, or care to uderstand. I think your reaction to our friend Duh was if anything kinder than i myself would have been, had some taken it upon themselves to criticize me in that way.



Re: an email and a response
by anayansi (lyra_belaque@hotmail.com)
on Feb 08, 2004 - 02:04 PM
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oh, that's beautiful. but i am left with a question: wtf is a glitter goth? geez, people like duh make me slightly ashamed to be a teenager...oh well, maybe she'll outgrow it...i seem to recall being a terrible brat at 15 as well, although i did the whole curling into myself and being awful rather than lashing out at people who would just laugh at me. ;0)



Re: an email and a response
by callei on Feb 09, 2004 - 11:39 AM
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there is a forum or article on here somwhere with all the "kinds" of goth.
and for the record, curling into yourself was probably just has hard on your friends nd family as being vitrolic and loud about it.


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