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Re: Another random collection of thoughts.
by Arthegarn on Jul 14, 2004 - 02:11 AM
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"Independence is something countries should have when they are ready for it.”
This is one of the most patriarchal things I have ever seen you write.
You misunderstand me. I am talking from a historian’s point of wiew here, not a politician’s. The fact is that when societies are ready for self-government and independence, they achieve it by whatever means necessary. And that when independence is thrust upon a Society unready for self-government, that Society spirals into chaos.
It’s not an easy matter, agreed. The Power to determine when a country is “ready for independence” is too big for a sole man to carry (most likely for a sole organisation). But the fact that it’s extremely hard to pinpoint who should decide when is a country ready for independence does not go against my initial statement.
As for who helps those countries to become ready, I guess we do. The already independent, stable countries. Oh, yeah, sure we are not at all that stable are we? All those problems inside our societies… Come on take a step back and look again. We are not Perfect but we are in a hell of a better position than they are. I believe XXI century peoples have the duty to help each other to attain a similar level of stability (it’s also good for business, too, sort of a Marshall Doctrine).
You talk about a nation held together by tax laws and football teams. Come on, Callei, things are surely not that hard. I am not a citizen of the United States nor do I reside there (yet), of course, but that is not the idea I have. Anyway, at least your country has a tax code. Mine hasn’t: the Basques and Catalonians have their own (the Basques actually have a peer-to-peer relationship to the State called the “Concierto Económico Vasco). And now they are talking about dismantling Spain’s National Soccer team so that the Basques, Catalonians and Andalusians can play much the same way as the Scot and the Welsh do. All countries have problems but I honestly believe hour problems are of the “which restaurant should I go to tonight?” scale instead of the “will I have dinner tonight?” one.
We ARE rich. Rich not only in monetary terms but also in terms of stability, consolidated democracy, Rule of Law… That is something that everyone deserves and that we should export. Everyone does not mean “every country”, it means “every person”. I believe we have the moral obligation to remove impediments to the world enjoyment of these things we so much take for granted.
And the Spanish financed your revolution too, ahem, we even sent troops to help the… OK, to annoy the English
OK, so your thesis is based on that you were not ready for independence? Callei, YOU WERE NOT PERFECT, NOBODY IS. The English were having their own problems in their tiny island, remember? Independence is not a sort of Heaven when all problems stop, it is the ability to rule yourselves. You were ready for that. You were not ready for perfection.
Many countries were NOT ready when the Europeans left Asia and Africa and almost nobody could see it (or else they didn't have the will to act) and we are suffering the consequences of that hasty withdrawal.
This is another stupid slander.
Do you mean what I said or what you are saying next? Honest question.
Anyway I am not talking about the reasons of European Empire expansion, I am talking about the de-colonisation process here, which was conducted badly and hastily in the wrong assumption that independence at any cost and in any condition was better than Protectorates. OK, you wanted it? You got it. In my humble opinion, bad choice.
Callei, we can debate here the status of the countries the Europeans invaded when they did it for ages and we will not see eye to eye on this subject. You believe, and you have all the right to do so, that peoples are better left alone. I do not. I am not going to say that the Colonisation was done to favour of the poor little Zulu (or Indians, or Aztecs) but this is not t
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